The LED Apocalypse. Should I rush out and get some panels ASAP?

Jon Furtado

Jon Furtado

Well-known member
I've been mulling over getting some LED panels for my lighting kit. I often am a one man band shooter and do a lot of corporate shoots. The LED fixtures out there have been garnering a lot of attention and I have been considering replacing my massive/bulky Mole Richardson Tungsten kit for my run and gun shoots. But all the complaining about the cheeper LED panels has given me pause.

With the idiotic trade commission decision seeming to be leaning in the favor of light panels, I'm worried that these more affordable instruments won't be available much longer. And am seriously thinking of ordering a 3 Pannel LED kit ASAP.

The panels i'm thinking of ordering are these:
http://www.ephotoinc.com/900-led-dimmable-photography-video-pa900.html

I can't afford the massively expensive Litepanels fixtures. And even if I could, I don't think I ever would buy them due to their unethical business practices.

I understand that LED don't output the full spectrum. But honestly, I see a lot of great interviews out there lit with LED's and if it can make me money, save my back and produce a good enough product, I'll consider it.

Thoughts?
 
For corporate stuff, especially interviews Im more often than not using fluoro units these days. Im not sold on LED tech as of right now, probably fine as decorative / practical in a shot, but for key - Im still waiting. Im reading recently also that CRI is not an accurate measure of LED light performance, and there are some moves to change that.
 
Noel Evans said:
For corporate stuff, especially interviews Im more often than not using fluoro units these days. Im not sold on LED tech as of right now, probably fine as decorative / practical in a shot, but for key - Im still waiting. Im reading recently also that CRI is not an accurate measure of LED light performance, and there are some moves to change that.
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What lights do you prefer to use instead of LED's? How portable are they?
 
I'm still a tungsten guy, at this point. I think LEDs are going to be amazing at some point, but I'm not jumping in yet. I've been carrying an LED flashlight with a CRI of 93 for the last couple of years, but the LED lighting fixtures I've seen don't measure up to that yet.
 
When it comes to LED lights there are a few naysayers out there, but I find having LED lights in my light kit a valuable addition. Kind of like having a hammer in your tool box, you don't use it all the time, but when you need to drive a nail it's invaluable.
 
There not ready for prime time. Something you use when you have no other choice for logistical reasons.
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i call horses for courses on that. yeah, maybe not on a feature set where you have 17 people to do six or eight jobs and everyone is niggling about things nobody but their peers will ever see.

but if youre a corporate, wedding, local / regional commercial, indie-music video shooter. the folks who matter are, in order:
1. those who sign your checks.
2. those who buy your clients product or service.

ive been shooting for approaching 20 years and i have yet to hear a single client or clients customer say that my lighting (lowels, kinos, ikan, litepanels, arris, whatever) was just a little off.

i stopped watching indie stuff because it was clear that the general order of importance seemed to be:
1. res
2. dr
3. light
4. composition
5. storytelling.

the priority should PROBABLY be the exact inverse of that list.

a good shooter can work with whatever they're given. as long as all your sources suffer arguably the same problems. you'll be ok. and even then. a good array of gels will get you most of the way there...

if people cared nearly as much about composition and storytelling as they do gear. we'd probably ALL be better off.
 
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As far as the trade dispute goes, I am honestly expecting to see some form of settlement which will involve royalties and which may drive up prices slightly. While I could be wrong, settlement is typically what happens.

I have LEDs from CoolLights, LitePanels and Zylight. The Zylight is in a different league because of its color temp and hue-shifting abilities. I cannot say that i am thrilled with them in interview situations. LitePanels have no or minimal green spike. With the CoolLights, a negative green gel is essential.

Ned Soltz
 
Jon Furtado said:
I can't afford the massively expensive Litepanels fixtures. And even if I could, I don't think I ever would buy them due to their unethical business practices.

Thoughts?
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So protecting your patents is unethical now? The guys that are copying their designs and infringing their patents only have to cough up some royalty fees like everyone else in business; they have been given that chance but so far preferred to ignore these basic laws.

How would you like if I went to your website, downloaded your commercial videos, and then slapped my logo on it and started selling it as my own? Would you be in favor of copyright laws in that scenario?
 
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I've got a Comer 1800 light that I bought from a DVXUser through the marketplace. It's a 10 LED, it's got a dimmer, it's battery powered and goes for hours. I love this light. It's even got a pair of barn doors to clip diffusion paper to, as well as a built in tungsten balanced filter.

I'm using the light mostly for weddings right now, but it's so portable and bright that I could easily use it for any job, and I plan to. It's got a spot / flood filter which works great if I need a little more power. I've seen other LED panels and how they look so cheaply manufactured. This is what kept me from buying an LED light until I got the Comer a few months back. It'll cost about $450 with a couple batteries, but man was this thing worth every penny.
 
gonzo_entertainment said:
There not ready for prime time. Something you use when you have no other choice for logistical reasons.
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I worked with Rodney Charters for a week lately, he swears by them (1x1 Litepanels) - in the new Dallas episodes, he uses them all over the place.

Actually I'm also not exactly an LED fan, but I have some small panels in my kit.
Funny thing, the cheapest China panel I have, has the best CRI - probably just good luck.


simonpwood said:
So protecting your patents is unethical now? The guys that are copying their designs and infringing their patents only have to cough up some royalty fees like everyone else in business; they have been given that chance but so far preferred to ignore these basic laws.
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They "patented" not the design but the use of LEDs for film and video.
So as long as the Chinese sell them to illuminate your garage, it's perfectly legal.

Frank
 
More like a gear puller than a hammer. Something you almost never need, but very handy when you do need it.

I ONLY speak in terms of narrative work. I have no idea what works for wedding/event guys because they don't print enough money for me to do that.
 
gonzo_entertainment said:
More like a gear puller than a hammer. Something you almost never need, but very handy when you do need it.

I ONLY speak in terms of narrative work. I have no idea what works for wedding/event guys because they don't print enough money for me to do that.
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Most of my work is TV commercials. To give you an example... I used LED lights to shoot a client on camera inside an RV in the middle of summer with cramped conditions, we didn't need hot lights breaking a sweat, could not run a genny, and no mains power available. If I didn't have LED lights in my kit I would have missed that income.

By the way, as someone who has restored a dozen or so classic sports cars, I find having gear pullers in the tool box a must have as well.

gonzo_entertainment said:
I have no idea what works for wedding/event guys because they don't print enough money for me to do that.
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Kind of reminds me of years ago. Most of my income is from doing voice work, and at one time some of my fellow voice talent would only do what they considered quality conversational voice overs, and wouldn't do car commercial tags because it was beneath them... "they couldn't print enough money for me to voice automotive tags" I remember them jabbing at me as I went into the booth to as I used to put it "scream for my supper". I remember the looks on their faces as I drove up in my first Ferrari, a 1979 Berlinetta Boxer, paid for with the automotive voice tags which they had refused to do.
 
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I worry that I can't afford quality LED panels yet so I'm kinda old school. I prefer 2 four-bank 2' KinoFlos for interviews with a 250W Lowel Pro hair light behind. And you can light great interviews with just one of those Kinos if you like a little shadow opposite the key, with or without bounce. I nearly always use daylight tubes because there's usually a window in the room and often in the shot. I gel the hairlight with half CTB.

Color looks great, setup is not terribly bulky, everything fits in a milk crate. Costs more than the cheaper LEDs but try to find some used ones.
 
Ha, love this: "I remember the looks on their faces as I drove up in my first Ferrari, a 1979 Berlinetta Boxer, paid for with the automotive voice tags which they had refused to do."

Artistes can drive you nuts.
 
I have no idea what works for wedding/event guys because they don't print enough money for me to do that.
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remember the looks on their faces as I drove up in my first Ferrari, a 1979 Berlinetta Boxer, paid for with the automotive voice tags which they had refused to do.
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the thing about weddings / event work is not that i consider it "beneath" me (because i shoot a lot of janky projects) but they are always just such a huge pain in the ass. i shot a couple way early on (mostly for friends or friends of) and there is always somebody who doesnt like somebody else. the bridesmaids are pissed off at a groomsman. mother in law wants this but mother wants that.

i dont care how many ferraris you get from shooting weddings - i want no part of it ; )
 
I don't consider it "beneath me" either. I don't begrudge anybody the way they make a living. It's just my own personal vision of hell. I'd rather be waterboarded, it would be MUCH more fun.
 
Postmaster said:
They "patented" not the design but the use of LEDs for film and video. So as long as the Chinese sell them to illuminate your garage, it's perfectly legal.Frank
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I respect your opinion Frank, but I think that you have subscribed to a prevalent over simplification on the matter.

For an oficial statement from the company you can read a quick Q&A here, its worth a read I reckon:

http://cinescopophilia.com/litepanels-address-led-patent-concerns/

A lot of people don't understand intellectual property, in the same way that a lot of people don't understand copyright (just look at all the illegally used music on youtube). Litepanels have a case here, and it deserves its due process at the very least.
 
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Postmaster said:
They "patented" not the design but the use of LEDs for film and video.
So as long as the Chinese sell them to illuminate your garage, it's perfectly legal.

Frank
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I've needed high output with high CRI to find my tools in my garage... so, I'll probably be ordering what need next year...
 
simonpwood said:
I respect your opinion Frank, but I think that you have subscribed to a prevalent over simplification on the matter.

For an oficial statement from the company you can read a quick Q&A here, its worth a read I reckon:

http://cinescopophilia.com/litepanels-address-led-patent-concerns/

A lot of people don't understand intellectual property, in the same way that a lot of people don't understand copyright (just look at all the illegally used music on youtube). Litepanels have a case here, and it deserves its due process at the very least.
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Having been involved in several 'intellectual' property cases for the various companies I've worked for... I have almost no respect for 'patents'. In almost no cases has there not been 'prior' art, and it is only because of the lack of technical expertise on the part of the Patent office, that many such patents are issued, and only because the legal costs to contest a patent, that they are legitimized by the payment of fees. Most 'large' companies will pay fees over contesting a patent, as that is cheaper.

Even in cases were the original developers of a patent did have an 'original idea'... many times the market is not ready, and these developers go bust, only to have their 'intellectual property' picked up for pennies by firms whose only 'business' is sending out license schedules... ie the original developers get bupkus for their efforts.

Shining an "LED" on a 'scene' is not particularly 'novel' and 'different' from any other use of 'light' on a movie set.
 
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