The King's Peach

[Jawa Ex Machina]

I just saw The King's Speech the other day.

It did disappoint me a little bit.
I mean, it's good, but it did feel a bit overrated.

Two things that bothered me:

The composition seemed off in a lot of scenes, especially in closeups.
Characters looking "out" with 2/3 of the image being just empty background behind their heads.
There was A LOT of that going on in A LOT of dialogue scenes.

Then, in the scene in the park where Geoffrey Rush tells Colin Firth he could take over the throne, that scene was obviously shot on a bright sunny day, but they tried to make it look foggy.
First of all, the sun was obviously shining straight into the camera because there was a constant lense flair but the sun and sky had been painted out digitally with white fog.
Then, as Firth leaves Rush behind, you can see long, clear shadows on the ground they didn't bother to paint out even though it's supposed to be thick fog covering the sun.

Maybe I'm being picky, but compared to Jeff Bridges and Christian Bale's performances this year, I didn't see anything in this movie that was even close to as good.

 

[capitalP]

I saw it the other day. I'm ashamed to say that I was a bit occupied(TMI) to really pay attention so I may have to see it again. But from what I did see, I too agree it might be a bit overrated, but my judgement means nothing since I didn't really pay too much attention to it.

But I did pay enough attention to know that it could be overrated, The Social Network still outshines it.

Now JAWA, maybe, just maybe your being too technical on it, the movie is suppose to be a character study so the characters should of drawn you in regardless what the fog and the sun was doing, maybe it was the directors fault or just maybe you as a filmmaker was looking for technical issues but either way, if the story wasn't engaging enough for you to forgive some of the framing than that's saying something. But don't listen to my words as I wasn't focused on it like I was suppose to. A second showing is called for to truly analyze it.

I do think Geoffrey Rush performance was good but Bale's was better.

Very surprise there isn't already a thread on this.

 

[Batutta]

In a world threatened by a tyrannical food service industry, one man has to overcome his lifelong fear of the produce aisle to inspire a nation...The King's Peach!

 

[Jawa Ex Machina]

Now JAWA, maybe, just maybe your being too technical on it, the movie is suppose to be a character study so the characters should of drawn you in regardless what the fog and the sun was doing, maybe it was the directors fault or just maybe you as a filmmaker was looking for technical issues but either way, if the story wasn't engaging enough for you to forgive some of the framing than that's saying something. But don't listen to my words as I wasn't focused on it like I was suppose to. A second showing is called for to truly analyze it.

Well, yeah obviously.
But let me put it another way:

The Sixth Sense share a very similar structure to The King's Speech.
You have the doctor and the patient, and he's trying to help the patient overcome the illness but eventually they become friends.
Right?

I thought the two best things about The King's Speech was the production design and the acting. The sound was good too.
But all of that is WAY better in The Sixth Sense. So was the directing, writing, editing, music and cinematography.

And my complaints are only there because it's been getting so much praise and there's oscar talk about Colin Firth. So the technical aspects should be relevant.
I mean, it's a very good film.

But not THAT good imo.

I'm gonna go watch The Sixth Sense now.

 

[vcassel]

I just saw The King's Speech the other day.

It did disappoint me a little bit.
I mean, it's good, but it did feel a bit overrated.

Two things that bothered me:

The composition seemed off in a lot of scenes, especially in closeups.
Characters looking "out" with 2/3 of the image being just empty background behind their heads.
There was A LOT of that going on in A LOT of dialogue scenes.

Then, in the scene in the park where Geoffrey Rush tells Colin Firth he could take over the throne, that scene was obviously shot on a bright sunny day, but they tried to make it look foggy.
First of all, the sun was obviously shining straight into the camera because there was a constant lense flair but the sun and sky had been painted out digitally with white fog.
Then, as Firth leaves Rush behind, you can see long, clear shadows on the ground they didn't bother to paint out even though it's supposed to be thick fog covering the sun.

Maybe I'm being picky, but compared to Jeff Bridges and Christian Bale's performances this year, I didn't see anything in this movie that was even close to as good.

I thought it was great. I even teared up a little.

Regarding the compositional choices, if you're speaking of the first meeting between Prince Albert and Lionel Logue in Logue's office in which Logue's internal reverse had open space in front of him and Albert's internal reverse had open space behind him, this is actually a relatively standard convention regarding the subject's state of being. It's meant to convey to the audience that Logue is open and engaging and that Albert is closed. I thought it worked rather well.

+1 on the production design! It deserves awards on that alone.

 

[Jawa Ex Machina]

In a world threatened by a tyrannical food service industry, one man has to overcome his lifelong fear of the produce aisle to inspire a nation...The King's Peach!

I should have named this thread The King's Puh-puh-puh-PEACH!

I thought it was great. I even teared up a little.

Regarding the compositional choices, if you're speaking of the first meeting between Prince Albert and Lionel Logue in Logue's office in which Logue's internal reverse had open space in front of him and Albert's internal reverse had open space behind him, this is actually a relatively standard convention regarding the subject's state of being. It's meant to convey to the audience that Logue is open and engaging and that Albert is closed. I thought it worked rather well.

+1 on the production design! It deserves awards on that alone.

Yeah, well, maybe.
Didn't really work for me though.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

I thought it was great and the performances were stunning.

 

[Eric Boellner]

To each his own, I guess. I loved it. In fact, the space in the framing was one of the main reasons I went to see it. It looked fantastic and played incredibly well.

 

[Finnegan]

The composition seemed off in a lot of scenes, especially in closeups. Characters looking "out" with 2/3 of the image being just empty background behind their heads.

While I didn't particularly love the composition either, I think it's very much an artistic choice on the part of the director and cinematographer and not a mistake. The viewer is supposed to identify with the main character who is not entirely comfortable in his own skin, to say the least. Giving the characters too much headroom, sidling them up against the edge of frame, and breaking eyelines through coverage helps to make the viewer feel disconnected and fragmented. I wouldn't say it's largely good composition, but the right composition.

 

[Jawa Ex Machina]

While I didn't particularly love the composition either, I think it's very much an artistic choice on the part of the director and cinematographer and not a mistake. The viewer is supposed to identify with the main character who is not entirely comfortable in his own skin, to say the least. Giving the characters too much headroom, sidling them up against the edge of frame, and breaking eyelines through coverage helps to make the viewer feel disconnected and fragmented. I wouldn't say it's largely good composition, but the right composition.

Yeah I'm sure it's not a mistake, but it just seemed 'off' to me.
Like it didn't connect me to the characters' disconnection as much as it disconnected me from the film experience, if that makes sense.

I guess if I would have used a composition like that, it would be in maybe just one specific reaction shot in one particular scene instead of every single cross cut close up shot in half the dialogue scenes of the film.

Maybe it was an editing problem more than a cinematography or direction problem?

 

[vcassel]

I guess if I would have used a composition like that, it would be in maybe just one specific reaction shot in one particular scene instead of every single cross cut close up shot in half the dialogue scenes of the film.

It's difficult to change an actor into that sort of framing without having him or her move into it. It would be too noticeable as camera work otherwise. Albert was cutting off the process from the beginning of that scene anyways, so it may have been even more odd to jump his placement.

 

[Jawa Ex Machina]

It's difficult to change an actor into that sort of framing without having him or her move into it. It would be too noticeable as camera work otherwise. Albert was cutting off the process from the beginning of that scene anyways, so it may have been even more odd to jump his placement.

Ok I can see that. That's a good point.

So why were both actors framed like that? It wasn't just that scene and those actors either, it must have been a running theme throughout the film.

Wouldn't it have been a better choice to just cross cut between two wide shots and let the actors use their body language instead of closeups and facial expressions and dialogue to create a sense of isolation between the two?

I'm just trying to understand the decision.

 

[vcassel]

So why were both actors framed like that?

From what I remember, Logue wasn't framed like that. He was framed with 2/3 screen space in front of him on internal reverses in order to show his interest and openness. It may have seemed confusing because we were placed so close to his eyeline in order to gain more immediate personableness with him, while we were backed off from Albert's.

It wasn't just that scene and those actors either, it must have been a running theme throughout the film.

I don't remember it being apparent beyond the Albert/Logue scenes in the office, but I've only seen it once. I would imagine that one of the themes of the film is indentured servitude (actually, this is rather firmly alluded to). Albert feels like a prisoner, bullied by his father and having no friends. The film frame helps to act like his prison, cutting him off from others because of his lack in self-esteem.

Wouldn't it have been a better choice to just cross cut between two wide shots and let the actors use their body language instead of closeups and facial expressions and dialogue to create a sense of isolation between the two?

Well, they were sitting in the office.

I can't remember anything else that struck me as off about the compositional choices in the film--I'll have to give it another go when my GF is back in Florida for the weekend. The initial meeting scene between Logue and Albert did indeed strike me as 'off', but I could tell it was intentional in regards to the juxtaposition in attitudes between the two men. Albert is the subject of the film, more or less. We were meant to feel as uncomfortable as he was.

 

[David Jimerson]

Ok I can see that. That's a good point.

So why were both actors framed like that? It wasn't just that scene and those actors either, it must have been a running theme throughout the film.

Wouldn't it have been a better choice to just cross cut between two wide shots and let the actors use their body language instead of closeups and facial expressions and dialogue to create a sense of isolation between the two?

I'm just trying to understand the decision.

What I got from the framing was that Albert was thinking about getting out the door (which was behind him in the frame), and Logue was trying to get him to come into the office and work (which was behind him). Actually, if they did it with conventional framing, you wouldn't get that impression. You get a sense of urgency with them both being on the edge of the frame.

Think of it this way -- have you ever been talking to someone and what's going on behind you was racing through your mind to the point where the back of your head nearly tingles? That's what I got out of the frame.

Didn't actually get around to seeing this until last night, but I thought it was considerably better than The Social Network. Its Oscars were well-deserved.