The editor is done with my movie, but what if the edit sucks!

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ironpony

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I couldn't really stay in contact with the editor, since she has her own life and schedule, and lives a bit aways. I gave her the footage and a few months later, he is done and wants to be paid, at the next meeting.

But I feel I should see the movie first and what not. Also, we never got to go over this, but I don't know what the final sound mix is, whether it's stereo, mono, 5.1

This may sound like I am being too paranoid or negative but it's happened to people I have collaborated on filmmaking and I was warned to watch out for this.

This is my first time so I wasn't sure what to expect or how to proceed professionally, but I am going to meet with the editor, but I want to make sure it's good first before I pay a few thousand dollars for a few months of work. But at the same time I guess I am just worried the editor will want to draw up a new contract as a result. How do you think I should go about this?
 
ironpony said:
This is my first time so I wasn't sure what to expect or how to proceed professionally....
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I'm sorry, but... NO! This is just like your thread on the sound engineer. See every post written to you in that thread: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?299602


To everyone else:

THIS IS NOT ironpony's first time. Look at his other threads. Same thing over and over again. http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/search.php?searchid=2792656

He is baiting you. So.... Public Service Announcement....

ironpony is trolling

oh_no__i_said_sit_by_dragonfly113-d3csjcw.jpg


Trolling
 
I think you should pay her, she's done the work. I would expect you are entitled to request a reasonable amount of changes for free, once. If you're still unhappy it then it becomes negotiable and will depend on the strength of your relationship. It may mean drawing a new contract. Have you read your existing contract? That is the only place you will find an answer. Everything you are entitled to is in there, it overrides any advice anyone can give you. If it's not in the contract, it is not an entitlement. Given how much trouble you had finding an editor in the first place you're not really in a position to be too picky.

You may also need to manage your expectations. The editor can only work with the materials supplied. If your footage and coverage is lacking then she will only be able to do what she can to save it.
 
Don't know if your'e trolling or not, but speaking as an editor, you should always negotiate to pay in steps, with some of the fee up front. This will guarantee an editor won't hold the edit hostage unless they are a total scumbag trying to extort you. After the first edit, if you're unhappy you both can walk away.
 
And speaking as an editor - which is one of the more important roles the director has to work with in shaping the story... was the editor sent a script ahead of time (before shooting). Did he or she provide script comments? Did you discuss the story and style you were going after? Did you agree on the points you were going after? If that goal was not in the footage (for whatever reason) was that discussed as footage was coming in? I edit remotely all the time - there is no real reason to not have communication between editor and director. Make a quicktime, use wetransfer.com. I've sent encoded feature length stuff that way. There are several online services that allow this with integrated commenting. I use a Slingbox to work with a director live over long distance. There is no reason I can see to be surprised by an edit. It is not a dump off process and see what come back. There are hundreds if not thousands of decisions being made based on what moves the story forward based on performance, look, glance, camera, angle, sound, etc. Also, was this editor also responsible for the mix? Was that discussed? It is a rare person who can tell a story editorially and also do a 5.1 mix. Are their editing rooms even set up properly to do such a mix? It's like "colorists" coloring on their laptop in whatever room they are in. There monitor calibration and room calibration once you've defined which color space you want to deliver in. But in this case, "the edit" seems to be about the ability to tell the story as the director intended. It just sounds that none of the creative collaboration communication was never done. And speaking from an editor's perspective, would not want to work with a director that didn't know how.

Michael
 
MichaelP said:
And speaking as an editor - which is one of the more important roles the director has to work with in shaping the story... was the editor sent a script ahead of time (before shooting). Did he or she provide script comments? Did you discuss the story and style you were going after? Did you agree on the points you were going after? If that goal was not in the footage (for whatever reason) was that discussed as footage was coming in? I edit remotely all the time - there is no real reason to not have communication between editor and director. Make a quicktime, use wetransfer.com. I've sent encoded feature length stuff that way. There are several online services that allow this with integrated commenting. I use a Slingbox to work with a director live over long distance. There is no reason I can see to be surprised by an edit. It is not a dump off process and see what come back. There are hundreds if not thousands of decisions being made based on what moves the story forward based on performance, look, glance, camera, angle, sound, etc. Also, was this editor also responsible for the mix? Was that discussed? It is a rare person who can tell a story editorially and also do a 5.1 mix. Are their editing rooms even set up properly to do such a mix? It's like "colorists" coloring on their laptop in whatever room they are in. There monitor calibration and room calibration once you've defined which color space you want to deliver in. But in this case, "the edit" seems to be about the ability to tell the story as the director intended. It just sounds that none of the creative collaboration communication was never done. And speaking from an editor's perspective, would not want to work with a director that didn't know how.

Michael
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You're seriously poking the ironpony with this one!

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No the editor didn't have time to collaborate. She just took it as something that had to be dropped off and delivered back and didn't want to get artistic with me on it at all. Well I'm going to meet her tonight so I hope it's good.


Well I just got back and watched the movie. This is an audio engineer and editor so she agreed to the audio as well in the contract and most of the money went to that. Some of the sounds do not sound right. Like for example their is a guy behind a door, talking through the door, yet he does not sound like he is behind a door. Some of the foley effects are also missing, like how a car drives by in the background but you can't hear it.

I already paid her, so the contract is up, but is their anything I can do to fix these sounds? I have Adobe Audition, but was never able to figure out how to use it. But all the sounds are now on the same tracks, so I can't separate three voices talking over each other, when one is shouting from behind a door. Or can I make it sound right?
 
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ironpony said:
No the editor didn't have time to collaborate. She just took it as something that had to be dropped off and delivered back and didn't want to get artistic with me on it at all. Well I'm going to meet her tonight so I hope it's good.
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Speaking as a director - I would never hire an editor that did not read the script beforehand, provide feedback, discuss story goals, and be willing to collaborate each step of the way. But I have to wonder why there were no checks and balances throughout the process - that is a producer/director problem. Should have been discussed (and required) ahead of time. But again, an experienced editor would have insisted on this as well. So I am going to assume this was everyone's first time?

I am going to assume the edit met all your expectations except for design and mix? Were you given a flattened finalized movie or the projects, media, and everything organized so you can pick up and still make changes or versions? What was discussed as a deliverable(s)?

Michael
 
Okay thanks. I did give them a script and we discussed some stuff at the first two meetings, but then a lot of time goes by and I didn't get another meeting ever. I was told I would but I didn't. What do you mean as deliverables? Yes this is my first time. I was suppose to get a complete audio edit. Foley, sound effects, dialogue sounds effects (which I did not seem to get any, their is no added reverb to any of the tracks), and music edited in. The only thing that was actually fixed was the popping sounds in the dialogue, and not even all of them were fixed. If some could not be, that is understandable, but that's the only thing. I don't even think their is any room tone from what I am hearing! Nor is their any reverb, and the ADR sounds just like it did, like when it was recorded in the studio!
 
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yeah. Well I was told before that it's possible to pull three voices off a track, separate them, and make them sound like they are in different areas if the room possible. how do I do that, when they are all speaking at the same time. It's hard to move on, cause I'm sick of never being able to do anything good with audio. Even hiring a pro didn't help! It would be nice to impress the actors and crew with something good, audio wise, for once.
 
The problem is that you didn't hire a pro. The entire process sounds fishy at best. This is now an audio post question and not really a question for distribution/marketing...at least you're happy with the edit? An editor doesn't do audio post (at least none that I've ever worked with). What you need to do now is hire an audio post guy/gal to help you out if the sound is still of concern. Don't settle if you know your movie can be better!

Kegan

P.S - I understand low budget/no budget filmmaking and I still stand by my point. Wait, pay and be happy with it or like said above, learn and move on.
 
Kegan said:
The problem is that you didn't hire a pro. The entire process sounds fishy at best. This is now an audio post question and not really a question for distribution/marketing...at least you're happy with the edit? An editor doesn't do audio post (at least none that I've ever worked with). What you need to do now is hire an audio post guy/gal to help you out if the sound is still of concern. Don't settle if you know your movie can be better!

Kegan

P.S - I understand low budget/no budget filmmaking and I still stand by my point. Wait, pay and be happy with it or like said above, learn and move on.
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Actually, the problem here is that...

ironpony is trolling

View attachment 67928


Trolling
 
Kegan said:
The problem is that you didn't hire a pro. The entire process sounds fishy at best. This is now an audio post question and not really a question for distribution/marketing...at least you're happy with the edit? An editor doesn't do audio post (at least none that I've ever worked with). What you need to do now is hire an audio post guy/gal to help you out if the sound is still of concern. Don't settle if you know your movie can be better!

Kegan

P.S - I understand low budget/no budget filmmaking and I still stand by my point. Wait, pay and be happy with it or like said above, learn and move on.
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I hired a company. One person is the editor, another was the audio engineer and in the contract it says that I get sound effects, which I am hugely absent of.
 
IRONPONY IS TROLLING

On January 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] ironpony created the thread "What do I do about this audio mixing problem with the audio engineer?” Here’s information extracted from ironpony’s posts in that (and this) thread:

January 2, 2013 (original post). ironpony makes it clear that:

  • ironpony hired a MALE audio engineer (“I hired him”)
  • the audio engineer is almost done
  • ironpony edited the movie
  • ironpony “gave him a copy of the whole movie with the dialogue edited in, for his reference.”

Still on January 2, 2013 (original post)

  • ironpony hired one person, not a company.
    • “Well I am paying the person so they are my employee in a way.”
    • “the person never invited me and just works alone I guess”

Still on January 2, 2013 (original post)

  • He is meeting the audio engineer next week

January 3, 2013 (original post)

  • ironpony is paying $1200 for all the work.

Two full months later ironpony comes back and starts this thread titled, “The editor is done with my movie, but what if the edit sucks!”

March 6, 2013 (original post)

  • ironpony hired a FEMALE video editor’s a few months ago (“she has her own life and schedule”)
  • wonders about the sound mix that “we never got to go over”
  • will be paying a few thousand dollars for a few months of work.

March 14, 2013 (original post)

  • the editor didn't have time to collaborate.
  • Ironpony will meet her tonight

He then edits that post to include new information:

  • Ironpony clarifies that the video editor “is an audio engineer and editor so she agreed to the audio as well in the contract and most of the money went to that.”)

Later on March 14, 2013 (original post)

  • Ironpony gave her “a script and we discussed some stuff at the first two meetings”

To make it crystal clear:

Two months ago Ironpony tells us he hired one MALE audio engineer who “works alone” and gave this engineer his completed video edit. The engineer was almost done editing and would be paid $1200.
Then the story changes and ironpony says he hired a FEMALE video editor a few months ago (who is also doing the audio edit because she is an audio engineer) and gave her a script (not his own completed edit) and is paying her a few thousand dollars.

Finally TODAY we learn that “I hired a company. One person is the editor, another was the audio engineer and in the contract it says that I get sound effects, which I am hugely absent of.”

This is ironpony’s failed attempt to reconcile all of the contradictions in his story.

He is trolling.

Peace.
 
keylight said:
IRONPONY IS TROLLING
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Keylight.... I think you have altogether too much time on your hands...

Perhaps Iron Pony could give general 'life story rights' to all the readers/respondents to his/her/its threads, as 'in consideration of reading/responding I grant...', and allow us to make a webseries, which I would title, "Iron Pony's Complaint"...
 
ironpony said:
I hired a company. One person is the editor, another was the audio engineer and in the contract it says that I get sound effects, which I am hugely absent of.
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This is why it is so important to do your due diligence on the people/companies you hire. Make sure the person you are hiring does good work before you hire them. An editor who doesn't want to talk to the director because they don't want to "get artsy" and a sound designer who only does a small part of their job are NOT pros. The key to good post is just like the key to a good production: PLANNING. It's your job to communicate your vision to your editor and sound designer. Would you hire an actor to be in your movie without ever giving them instruction or guidance? Would you hire a DP and then never discuss with them what you want? Why would you do that with your editor, the person who has final control over the pacing and flow of your film?
 
stefancolson said:
Why would you do that with your editor, the person who has final control over the pacing and flow of your film?
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Editor does not have final control of a film unless it is given to them. This is a result of no communication between director and editor and the fact they neither of them initiated the communication process. I say they deserve each other.


Michael
 
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