The Camera Sees Blue But I See White

S

slondon

Well-known member
Some of you might find this interesting.

It fascinates me that when I walk into a room at night illuminated by incandescents, colors look pretty natural to me. When I walk into that room with daylight streaming through the windows colors look pretty natural to me.

Long ago, color film balanced for tungsten and daylight proved for me that there was a huge difference. But why could I see this in the pictures and far less so in real life? I asked myself (though like a dummy I never actually did the experiment,) if I stared at the picture that looked too blue or too orange long enough, in a dark room, would my eye-brain accommodate and the colors look right to me, as I suspected?

A little back I saw some scientific material from a researcher whose interests and expertise clearly made him qualified to answer so I dropped him a note. You can see who he is at the bottom of our exchange and you should read my question at the bottom and see his answer above it:

If you are immersed in an environment, you adjust for the color temperature. However, when you see a photograph or a video monitor, you have two lighting environments: the one around you, and the one in the picture. The one around you takes up most of your visual field, so it tends to control that adaptation. If you are in an immersive setting like an Imax theater, you will adjust to the picture. Note that this won't happen instantaneously, though.

I don't know of a good reference for this.

--Ted Adelson

On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 4:50 PM, [slondon] wrote:
> Dr. Adelson,
>
> If you don't have time to respond could you please forward this to a
> colleague who might be able to answer my question?, thank you.
>
> I'm a cinematographer. The human visual system adapts nearly instantly
> to illumination by daylight at 5600K and cinematic tungsten at 3200K
> such that white appears white and skintones appear correct under both illuminations.
>
> Why then, does it not do this trick when viewing photographs or video
> images taken with 5600K light but film or a camera balanced for 3200K,
> and vice versa?
>
> Also, if you know of a source where I could read about this perception
> phenomenon I would appreciate the reference.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Steve



----------------------
Edward H. Adelson
John and Dorothy Wilson Professor of Vision Science Dept. of Brain and Cognitive Sciences MIT​
 
But you can see it yourself under certain circumstances. As we referenced on the Lighting DVD, if you're in a bathroom with no windows, lit by incandescent light, and you're in there for a while so your eyes (really your brain) are used to it, if daylight gets in from the next room and hits something white, you'll see a blue tint to it.
 
Wow, Chris, what an absolute treasure of a website. Thank you so much. I expect to spend a great deal of time reading there.

MacEvoy is an interesting character. He's a watercolorist, amateur astronomer, blogger, retired business consultant and Yahoo exec with a PhD in psychology who was a bartender and ski bum after college. My guess is he's a renaissance man with a big brain who can't help getting to the bottom of the science involved in his art. I too enjoy the physics, physiology and psychology of our art but I'm not in danger of MacEvoy's depth of understanding, I'm afraid.

I think I've found the section that addresses my question, though I've already gotten the confirmation of what I thought was up, but it will make for good reading. It is here: http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/color12.html

The page you suggested gives me further insight on what is to me another interesting visual paradox, that of metamerism where different combinations of light can produce the same perceived color.

So thanks again.
 
David Jimerson said:
But you can see it yourself under certain circumstances. As we referenced on the Lighting DVD, if you're in a bathroom with no windows, lit by incandescent light, and you're in there for a while so your eyes (really your brain) are used to it, if daylight gets in from the next room and hits something white, you'll see a blue tint to it.
Click to expand...
I haven't personally noticed that but yes, that is exactly the deal.
 
slondon said:
It fascinates me that when I walk into a room at night illuminated by incandescents, colors look pretty natural to me. When I walk into that room with daylight streaming through the windows colors look pretty natural to me.
Click to expand...

I remember when this used to be how my brain operates but now it doesn't happen anymore. When I see daylight I see blue, whether I'm outside or looking at a window, and when I'm around incandescents I see orange. Same with flo's, green tint. The only time it flips to white for me now is when I'm looking at a feed from a camera that has been white balanced. Anyone else like this?
 
J Davis said:
I remember when this used to be how my brain operates but now it doesn't happen anymore. When I see daylight I see blue, whether I'm outside or looking at a window, and when I'm around incandescents I see orange. Same with flo's, green tint. The only time it flips to white for me now is when I'm looking at a feed from a camera that has been white balanced. Anyone else like this?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I see the color temperature in light quite a bit now.
 
I think it also has alot to do with the way that you train your eyes in/for filmmaking.
 
slondon said:
How does your vision work on mixed color temperatures or tungsten lighting?
Click to expand...

It works in the same way for me. I look at the light and I can see the color temp. Note, that it took me some time to be able to do this. It wasn't an over night thing for me.
 
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