The best lighting for general purposes?

jeff jassky

jeff jassky

Active member
Hey guys. Lately I've been learning about lighting. I've come to learn how important it is to not overlook lighting when it comes to film and video. I'm pretty new to lighting. Up until now I've just made do with halogen work lights and around-the-house lamps and such. At this point I'd really like to start learning more about lighting. I've got alot of questions that are most likely already answered somewhere in the depths of the forums, though I'd like to consolidate many of teh answers here in one thread. Thanks guys!

1. What would be the best general lighting system for me?
softboxes, fluorescents, fresnels, etc, etc. I'm sure it's not that confusing - though I don't know what's best. I plan on shooting shorts, music videos, and other small things for right now as I am learning. I also plan on using them for photography. I (like most of you) don't have an unlimited budget. Let's say I have a $600 budget for lighting equippment (meaning everything - stands, diffusers, reflectors, filters, gels, etc.). I'm somewhat a fan of fashion lighting, but also very much want to learn about other cinematic lighting techniques.

2. What would be the best informational books/videos/websites
Based on the above information - can anyone reccommend any particular information/tutorial media for me to read?

3. How about color temp?
Does it really matter seeing as how you can change it in the camera, and (slightly) in post? Is it best to use a certain color temp? I know some people use different color temps to create different looks - but tweaking the color temp in the camera, and the possibilities in post, is there really a point to getting a perfect color temp? I know that one UNIFORM color temp would be good - meaning not using multiple lights each with differing kelvin ratings - but as long as all of your lights are the same - does it matter what temp it actually is?

I guess I could go on and on and on about questions in detail - such as different types of stands, rolling or not, size of barn doors, open faced or not - but I'm hoping someone might list a few books where all of those types of things would be explained.

Thanks alot guys. I really appreciate this community. I absolutely love detailed responses if you have the time :) I'm basically a sponge waiting to soak up any knowlege you guys offer. Thanks again!

-Jeff
 
A lot depends on how much money you have.

Here's a tour through this forum's own Walter Graff's 1/2 person interview lighting kit.
http://www.dv.com/features/features_item.jhtml?category=Archive&LookupId=/xml/feature/2004/graff0404

But at the same time he has other kits. Check out his other articles and try and count how many different fixtures he talks about using.

http://www.bluesky-web.com/new-page6.html

There are 2 schools of thought on buying a ready made light kit (i.e. and Arri kit or a Lowell DV creator kit) vs buying every separate and making your own kit. I like buying everything separate since I can get stuff from many different manufacturers.

My personal advice is to get a vide variety of lights.

650 watt fresnels by Arri or Altman are always a good bet.

Britek open face spots with softboxes served me well but lately it seems like the quality of the newer Briteks may be going down hill (ck the rest of this forum where a lot of discussion about it is happening) I've lately heard good things about that amnova ebay store and the soft lights they sell.

Lower wattage lights like a Lowell Pro lite (250 watts) or a Pepper 100 Fresnel are a must for detail lighting like an actor's face, backlight, rim light and the like.

1ks and 2k come in quite handy if you are having to light a big area but make it that much easier to blow a breaker and are often too much for lots of inside work.

Broad lights like the Lowell Tota(750 watts), Lowell V-Lite (500 watts) Arri Nooklight (1k) are bright but need to be defused. I like using them as an over all fill light in a room by bouncing them off of ceilings and walls. They can also be bounced off of reflectors. They even take the same bulbs as home depot halogen work lights. I even have a work light that I attached to a spring clamp and put a 3200K film bulb in that I use as a bounce light often (can't go wrong with a $20, 500 watt light)

Of course the lights are just part of the picture. You need light stands. I like Bogan Stackers the best because they are just as strong as regular ones but can fold flat, connect together and fit in a smaller space than regular ones.

Blackwrap is a must, to block light and keep it for going where you don't want it to go.

Reflectors are important, especially when shooting outside. Umbrellas can be nice for diffusing direct lights but they do bounce light everywhere.

Extension cords. Preferably black so you can hide them better on set if you have to run them through a filming location. Get several different lengths because you don't want to use a 50' cord to connect to an outlet 10' away. Also get at least 12 gauge cord (10 gauge if you have a 100' cord) and use the shortest length possible because long cords or ones that aren't thick enough leads to voltage drops where your lights can't get the full power they need, causing them to dim and shift toward a red color.

Multiplugs and power strips because you never have enough outlets around.

Pipe clamps and Maffer clamps to mount your lights in places that you can't use a light stand.

Foamcore is cheap and great for making flags and reflectors.

C-Stands are useful but harder to transport and take up more room. Grip heads are needed to fasten flags and stuff to.

Gaffer's tape, duct tape, and electrical tape.

Here are the best websites I know of with info on lighting equipment, including some do it yourself types and if you are really serious about getting equipment for $600 you will probably need to do some DIY work. Heck I heard of a movie at Sundance recently that was lighted with only some household fluorescents that they got at Wal-Mart. The nice thing about fluorescents is that you can get daylight bulbs and not have to worry if a window to outside is in your shot.

http://www.bluesky-web.com/new-page6.html

http://www.scottspears.net/filmmakpg3.html

http://live-theater.org/slightlypoormanslightkit.htm

http://www.jorenclark.com/whitepapers.html
 
Thank you very much for that! I've been looking at amvonas stuff on ebay for a few months and I'm very impressed. They seem to hava really great deals.

I'm definitely more into buying/building seperate lights than buying a preconfigured kit.

Those links will definitely help alot. I appreciate that a ton. I'm not sure if I mentioned this, but I have apretty full workshop and I'm definitely up for some DIY stuff to save money.


Thanks fitz. That gives me some more info to work with.

So I guess my question now is - What are the pros & cons of different lighting systems? Softboxes and fluorescents can't really be used as keys, can they? Not as good as fresnels at least, right? Go ahead and list off what types of lights are used best for different purposes (different keys, fills, backlights, hairlights, accent lights and anything else you guys can think of). Thanks guys! You're rad. I appreciate it alot. Thanks!

- Jeff
 
Here's what I would recommend:

General key (soft source):

x1 KinoFlo DivaLite200 w/Lighttools fabric eggcrate, or an XS (extra small) Lowel RifaLite w/fabric eggcrate, if money or weight is an issue (Rifa is lighter and cheaper than a Diva, but the Diva has a dimmer and can use either 2900K or 5600K bulbs).

Specials (Fresnels):

x2 Arri 150W Fresnel
x1 Arri 300W Fresnel
x1 Arri 650W Fresnel

This is EXACTLY what I have in my NBC van, and it's what I use to light 99% of everything I shoot. When we do a two-camera shoot, the other camera guy has the exact same lights too. It's amazing what you can do with only a handful of good Fresnels (at least for interview lighting). The light I use the LEAST is the Arri 650W Fresnel.

The LTM "Pepper" Fresnels actually have a smoother beam pattern than the Arris, but the Arris look way cooler, cosmetically. I would buy the soft source first, then add Fresnels in the order listed as your needs grow. Also, 50W mini floodlights (PAR20) sold at the hardware store are GREAT lights! They make a flood and a spot version. VERY handy things to have and they're only about $9 each (you need some kind of fixture to screw them into). You could get by with using these in place of the Arri 150s if you want to save money. Try 'em--they're GREAT! Not focusable, but they really do the trick for a lot of applications.

If you want more "film" kinda lights, don't overlook PARs of every size. They're incredibly cheap and do a great job for what they are (kinda like car headlights in a can). The best thing about PARs is that they put out a LOT of light and they're dirt cheap. Cheap enough to own instead of rent.
 
jeff jassky said:
What about getting a kit like this - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7587865942

and building cans/barn doors? Would those work similarly to frensels? Like I said guys, I'm not super knowlegable in this stuff. Thanks guys!

-Jeff
Click to expand...
All that is crap. Forget building stuff. Lights get sh!t hot, and you need a properly engineered tool to house the lamp and operate properly. Not to say that "other" Home Depot-style lights aren't EXTREMELY useful if your budget's tight. But NOTHING is going to give you the control of a focusable light like a Fresnel made by a real manufacturer (I never even heard of that Britek crap until I came here).
 
Awesome.. well from what I've been reading over the past few days on the forums and other places, it seems like people really like frensels. I have afew questions - all of which I believe I know already, but I thought it would be best to ask.

1. The beam of a fresnel is apparently variable to a very wide angle if necessary?

2. you clip on gels and diffusers as opposed to mounting them inside of softboxes and such?

      3. Is a fresnel with diffusers any where near comparable to a softbox?

3.1 and if not - can you mount a fresnel inside of a frame with (flame resistant) cloth as a softbox?

4. These lights can be used with pretty much any stands available? I'm definitely into heavy-duty equippment. I imagine these lights are quite heavy. I don't know exactly what a "c-stand" is or what their capacity is, but I hear they're okay for these lights? Would something like this be sufficient? - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7587831923

Thanks, guys!

-Jeff
 
Seriously,

if you don't have enough money to buy the right equipment (which 600 isn't even a start) then it's best to hire a gaffer that has their own equipment, not because because they will do a better job and make your film look much better, but because you can SEE with your own eyes just HOW it is done and WHICH LIGHTS are the ones to use for each situation.

Books, videos, and classes are all a load crap compared to actually being on set with someone that knows what they're doing. That's by far the best way to learn.
 
I'm sure that's true for sure. Unfortunately I'm not even close to the point of actualy hiring people or doing projects with budgets over a few hundred bucks. I've looked on ebay and it seems like I could afford maybe two 300's for now. I was also looking at these stands - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7587831923 Would I need to buy something extra to attach the light to this stand? The stand looks like it doesn't have any head type of mount deal. Also, what kind of diffusers are good? are they clip-on plastic? cloth? glass? Also, are there any certain brands that maybe I should stay away from? thanks!

-Jeff
 
jeff jassky said:
I'm sure that's true for sure. Unfortunately I'm not even close to the point of actualy hiring people or doing projects with budgets over a few hundred bucks. I've looked on ebay and it seems like I could afford maybe two 300's for now. I was also looking at these stands - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7587831923 Would I need to buy something extra to attach the light to this stand? The stand looks like it doesn't have any head type of mount deal. Also, what kind of diffusers are good? are they clip-on plastic? cloth? glass? Also, are there any certain brands that maybe I should stay away from? thanks!

-Jeff
Click to expand...


Seriously, for tiny budgeted shorts, or even features, don't waste what little money you have on lighting kits. Buy Home Depot lights, and black wrap along with some gels and shoot your movie. Experiment! Move lights around, diffuse them, bounce them, and just fiddle around with them until you get what it's about. Because believe me, if you can master work lights, you have pretty much gauranteed you will know what you're doing when it comes time to buy a real lighting kit. There's no sense spending all your time worrying about what lights to buy this early in your experience. Ask any gorrilla filmmaker out there, and they have all used work lights at one time or another. Hell, I'm using them on a feature. The key is understanding lighting technique, not the lights themselves, at least on what amounts to a no budget shoot. Once you gain experience, begin adding the real deal to your shoots a little at a time.
 
jeff jassky said:
1. The beam of a fresnel is apparently variable to a very wide angle if necessary?
Click to expand...
Yes, from narrow, to flood.

jeff jassky said:
2. you clip on gels and diffusers as opposed to mounting them inside of softboxes and such?
Click to expand...
You clip gels onto the barndoors on a Fresnel.

jeff jassky said:
3. Is a fresnel with diffusers any where near comparable to a softbox? And if not - can you mount a fresnel inside of a frame with (flame resistant) cloth as a softbox?
Click to expand...
No, not at all. Even with heavy diffusion, like 216, the Fresnel will still be a relatively small source and will still have a "hard" light quality, casting very distinct shadows. The reason softboxes are soft is that they emit diffused light from a large source. The larger the source, the softer the light. You could however get a similar quality of light by putting a 24" x 36" silk in front of your Fresnel using a C-stand.

jeff jassky said:
4. These lights can be used with pretty much any stands available? I'm definitely into heavy-duty equippment. I imagine these lights are quite heavy. I don't know exactly what a "c-stand" is or what their capacity is, but I hear they're okay for these lights? Would something like this be sufficient?
Click to expand...
Manfrotto stands are great for location lighting. Not too expensive, lightweight, and good. C-stands run about $120 complete and are generally used to put a heavier light (HMI) or grip equipment like lighting control tools such as flags/cutters/blades (solids), nets, and silks. A C-stand will hold a small light just fine, but it's cheaper/easier most of the time to use a small, lightweight location stand like the Manfrottos. However, C-stands are great for rigging something high, and "over" like a backlight.

If you're planning on shooting several projects, I wouldn't necessarily recommend hiring a gaffer and renting his lights. That can be real expensive (my gaffer makes $800/day). If you're going to spend money, you might as well start building your lighting inventory. If you're just starting out, take Alternative 3's advice above and get cheap Home Depot lights. You can also use $8 PAR20 globes from Home Depot that act like small "focused" lights, since they come in both a flood version and a spot version. I use the crap outta PAR20s.
 
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