The Batman

KurtF

KurtF

Well-known member
So the new Batman has been out for a week now, and having seen it I'm quite struck by the pacing of the picture. Looking back at the Christopher Nolan trilogy, it seems like they edited the film, then trimmed off 5 or 10 frames from the beginning and end of every shot, trying to shoe horn it down to a specific run time. Or maybe that staccato, machine gun pace was what they were looking for. This Matt Reeves version is languid, slow and methodical. Maybe not M. Night Shamalan pacing, but still a welcome relief from earlier pictures. Here the Batman takes a shotgun blast to the chest, point blank, then hangs off an edge while the assailant calmly breaks open the shotgun, removes the spent shells, reloads, closes the action, and moves in for the kill shot. Plenty of time to build atmosphere and suspense. I really enjoyed the picture.
 
So, Batman dies, I take it? Just kidding - sounds interesting! Thanks for the recommendation. My eyes usually glaze over when a new superhero movie rolls out but I'll have to give it a look
 
I’ve heard it’s a good movie but I’m not interested. No matter how well you can do a reboot or sequel, prequel, it’s tiresome that Hollywood is so bereft of creativity that all they can do is endlessly recycle the same characters and franchises. I don’t want to see another Star Wars or comic book hero movie ever again.
 
I hear you about the sequels and reboots. Hollywood is essentially a sausage factory - cranking out consumables for a ravenous public. They turned out Westerns for years, then Musicals, Noir Thrillers, Spy flix, Adventure, and now Superhero movies. This trend will pass eventually, but Hollywood will continue grinding out those sausages that the public demands. If some new trend emerges, when public buying habits shift, Hollywood will change.
 
KurtF said:
I hear you about the sequels and reboots. Hollywood is essentially a sausage factory - cranking out consumables for a ravenous public. They turned out Westerns for years, then Musicals, Noir Thrillers, Spy flix, Adventure, and now Superhero movies. This trend will pass eventually, but Hollywood will continue grinding out those sausages that the public demands. If some new trend emerges, when public buying habits shift, Hollywood will change.
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Yeah copycat sausage factories is a good description
 
It's an insult to sausages to call today's feature film industry a sausage factory. Based on what the studios release, I'd call the industry one big rectum.
 
one big rectum
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I wouldn't go quite that far. Of the Noir thrillers Hollywood cranked out, most were entertaining, if forgettable. Some were terrible, just jaded rip offs, and some were true gems. Now, some 80 years later, we remember the classics and forget the terrible ones. "Wings of Danger"? "The Unholy Four"? https://www.flickchart.com/Charts.aspx?genre=Film+Noir&order=desc
So today we're seeing a lot of terrible films, cranked out to make money, but that's normal. That's the nature of the sausage business. I don't think 80 years from now we'll remember "John Wick 3" or "Star Wars 9" as being any kind of classic film. The first "Avengers" maybe. I think this version of "The Batman" might qualify.
The pacing, the cinematic lighting and production design, are all really well done. Is the story perfect? No, but definitely entertaining with a few surprises.
 
The difference is that the turds of yesterday were balanced by works of greatness. Now it is 99% turds in theaters. Feature films today are pretty much made just for fans of comic books with movies that look like video games. The best work now is found on television and streaming, rather than in theaters. Still plenty of turds on the small screen too, but at least they are balanced by some pretty nice work being done today on the various streaming services.
 
I agree I wouldn't go too far. Main stream movies today are generally higher technical quality. I'm critical of the lack of variety and the quality of the stories being told.

I'm tired of the comic book movies. Even if they were masterpieces (which they're not) the sheer number of these is ridiculous. Take Batman. This got revived in the 90's with Jack Nicholson as Joker cheesy but good, followed by a number of bad sequels running it into the ground. Then they brought it back with Christian Bale Dark Knight Rises, which was better than the previous revival. Then you had spin offs like Keith Ledger's Joker. In between all that there was the Prequel Batman TV show Gotham that I loved. And now we have another revival of the Batman movie franchise. How much more do we need? Ironically Batman was once one of my favorite comic book characters but Hollywood job is find out what you like than proceed to run it into the ground. I used to think that this was a unique phenomena to Star Wars when I was younger, but now I see it's a pattern that repeats itself.

Beyond Batman and comic book movies. I'm getting sequel fatigue of any genre. When you remove reboots and sequels there is precious few movies left.

I agree with Doug that well told stories with depth and nuance resides on streamed services. Theater movies are now primarily targeted at children and teens.
 
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The 90s was the recent peak. Then Napster happened. Now tiktok. The younger generation all has tiktok brain so it's all downhill from here. Theatrical cinema as we knew it is dead
 
I saw this last week in IMAX. It's dark. Very dark. It's slow. Very slow. I liked it, but not so much. It's a 6.5/10 for me.
 
Doug Jensen said:
The best work now is found on television and streaming, rather than in theaters. Still plenty of turds on the small screen too, but at least they are balanced by some pretty nice work being done today on the various streaming services.
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I’ve been saying the same thing on here for several years, now. I think the last time I was in a theater may have been 2018.
 
The AC and DIT at my last shoot both asked me if I had "seen The Batman yet." I guess that means it's a big deal. Multiple people don't often ask me if I've seen something, let alone "yet". (PS do people remember the discussion about "yet" from High Fidelity?)
 
Peter C. said:
I agree I wouldn't go too far. Main stream movies today are generally higher technical quality. I'm critical of the lack of variety and the quality of the stories being told.

I'm tired of the comic book movies. Even if they were masterpieces (which they're not) the sheer number of these is ridiculous. Take Batman. This got revived in the 90's with Jack Nicholson as Joker cheesy but good, followed by a number of bad sequels running it into the ground. Then they brought it back with Christian Bale Dark Knight Rises, which was better than the previous revival. Then you had spin offs like Keith Ledger's Joker. In between all that there was the Prequel Batman TV show Gotham that I loved. And now we have another revival of the Batman movie franchise. How much more do we need? Ironically Batman was once one of my favorite comic book characters but Hollywood job is find out what you like than proceed to run it into the ground. I used to think that this was a unique phenomena to Star Wars when I was younger, but now I see it's a pattern that repeats itself.

Beyond Batman and comic book movies. I'm getting sequel fatigue of any genre. When you remove reboots and sequels there is precious few movies left.

I agree with Doug that well told stories with depth and nuance resides on streamed services. Theater movies are now primarily targeted at children and teens.
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Not sure what movies you go to but I see a lot more baby boomers out at the movies than I do kids and teens. Its the kids and teens that have 1001 other forms of entertainment and don't see value in movies the same way we do.

Comic book movies also tend to appeal to those of us who grew up with those comics. I'm in my 40's and attend more movies than I ever did because of comic book movies. Most of the people in the theater are in their 30's or 40's. The nerds like me. All my friends and co-workers talk about these movies are in their late 20's to early 50's.

At the end of the day Hollywood is a business. We can pretend its fine art but its not. Its commercial art. Its designed solely to make a crap load of money.

Every single one of us on here id given the opportunity to direct or at least be a big part of a comic book movie would jump at the chance to do so. If a Studio called you up tomorrow offering $1,000,000 you would all take it.

I agree the reboots need to stop but I also think its not very fair or accurate to group all comic book movies into the same category. DC is very guilty of rehashing because they can't really figure out what to do. Should they be fun, should they be dark? Should they try obscure characters, nope lets go back to the tried and true.

Marvel has its act together a lot more and isn't really guilty of rebooting anymore. I wouldn't even exactly call all Marvel movies sequels either. Being part of a huge universe is not the same as a sequel. Its that cohesive universe and story that makes Marvel a bit more interesting right now. Its not just about each individual movie. Its about the large puzzle and putting all of it together. Some Mar vet movies are less than great and some very average but its when you step back and look at the massive perspective of how it all fits together where it really shines.

Movies are supposed to invoke emotion and response and yes sometimes those emotions are joy, excitement and adventure. When Star Wars first came out Hollywood was in a major rut in the 70's. Star Wars helped Hollywood bounce back in a big way. It inspired future movies to capture that adventure spirit and get people excited again to see movies. Now Marvel is doing that for a new generation.

How many of the other movies mentioned here would see a bigger audience if there were no sequels or comic book movies? I doubt people would suddenly find a love for those movies just for the sake of going to see a movie. What we would see is the complete death of cinema as we know it. Studios would no longer have the money to find more art films. Theaters would shut down. Its those movies people are complaining about that make everything we do possible. Studios make money so they can fund other films. Theaters make money and can stay open. Equipment and software keep getting better to give the tools for that industry.

My point is be careful what you wish for. I don't think the industry could survive another slump like it had in the 70's. We saw the impact Covid had on the industry and eliminating 90% of the movies people actually want to pay to see 90% of the time is its going to make it 10,000x worse.

Don't blame Hollywood. Blame humanity. Blame our society that knows every fact from every season of the Bachelor but can't recall a single political event that happened a month ago accurately. Blame our society that is more fixated on sports stats than making the world a better place. Our society has preferred mindless entertainment long before the world had gladiatorial games in Greece. This is why we have sports. Its all mindless entertainment. Sports has absolutely no substantial impact on any of our lives and yet we obsess about it and devote billions of dollars to keep it going. This is why we have reality TV, comedy, porn, video games you name it.

Yes some of us like fine art. I love going to museums. I went to art school and I support local artists whenever I can. I can also sometimes just sit back and have fun. I'm sure every one of you have some form of mindless guilty pleasure like sports or whatever. For me its geek culture. I love reading classics but yet I enjoy a comic book store sometimes. I love looking at paintings at the Louvre and yet enjoy photography and graphic design. I love classic films of all genres and French cinema and still find Caddy Shack and Ghost Busters to be an equal classics. It all evokes some kind of emotion.
 
Thomas Smet said:
Every single one of us on here id given the opportunity to direct or at least be a big part of a comic book movie would jump at the chance to do so. If a Studio called you up tomorrow offering $1,000,000 you would all take it..
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There's a lot of disgusting things I'd do for a $1,000,000. But that doesn't mean I'd pay $10 to watch someone else do it for two hours.
Most of the rest of your points are equally ridiculous but not worth the time it would take to rebut. I don't hate comic movies because they are mindless entertainment, I hate them because they are excruciatingly boring. I'd rather watch nothing at all. Fortunately, there are many other good choices outside the theater.
 
Thomas Smet said:
Not sure what movies you go...
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I don't go to the cinema a lot so you might be right about the audience that watches comic book movies.

Like Doug said someone paying you a lot of money to make a film you would not want to watch isn't the best argument in favor or such films.

Hollywood goes through phases where they will release mostly one type of genre. In the 50s it was the western, 70s car chase cop movies, 80s high school teen movies, 90s thriller movies, today its the comic book franchises.

We feel different about them but that's only natural for everyone to have their own opinion.

I like sports for the competition and undetermined results. But I generally watch less movies and sports of recent.
 
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