Tenet

Liam Hall

Liam Hall

Veteran
This evening I watched Tenet on a massive Imax screen and my head hurts.

You’ve got to hand to Nolan, he can see the future. In Tenet he’s made a film that will require so many viewings to work out what the hell is supposed to be going on it will more than make up for lost cinema revenue due to the pandemic!
 
As I mentioned in another thread, I saw it in a completely empty theatre the other day. I definitely enjoyed it just as spectacle, as something I've never seen before. And it cements John David Washington's leading man status. The reverse time sequences I didn't find hard to follow really, but on a basic who needs what from whom and why level it's really confusing and hard to keep up with, to the point where it restricts your emotional involvement. And it could have used some more humour. I'd give it a solid B at least. That might go up with another viewing.
 
ahalpert said:
...did you enjoy it?
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I'm not sure yet.

It started well, with a great action sequence. Then it went into a series of scenes to set up the narrative and explain the faux-physics at the heart of the story. Some of these scenes I nearly laughed out loud at their ridiculousness. It felt like they hadn't quite worked it out themselves and twenty minutes in I said to myself this is Nolan's worst film. Forty-five minutes in, and despite Kenneth Branner doing a decent job as a Russian arms dealer and Elizabeth Debicki once again playing the fluffy, yet plucky wife I was convinced he'd lost the plot and become one of those insane megalomaniac directors where no one pushes back on their crazy ideas. But... ...then it all begins to make sense (sense, in terms of the faux-physics he painfully explained for forty minutes earlier) and then you can enjoy the spectacle. And it's quite a spectacle towards the end. Some very clever filmmaking even if the premise relies on some next level crazy physics.

Nolan's films are always interesting to watch and always have great soundtracks. I'm not sure how I'll feel about it in the morning. My head still hurts.
 
Liam Hall said:
It started well, with a great action sequence. Then it went into a series of scenes to set up the narrative and explain the faux-physics at the heart of the story. Some of these scenes I nearly laughed out loud at their ridiculousness. It felt like they hadn't quite worked it out themselves and twenty minutes in I said to myself this is Nolan's worst film. Forty-five minutes in, and despite Kenneth Branner doing a decent job as a Russian arms dealer and Elizabeth Debicki once again playing the fluffy, yet plucky wife I was convinced he'd lost the plot and become one of those insane megalomaniac directors where no one pushes back on their crazy ideas. But... ...then it all begins to make sense (sense, in terms of the faux-physics he painfully explained for forty minutes earlier) and then you can enjoy the spectacle. And it's quite a spectacle towards the end. Some very clever filmmaking even if the premise relies on some next level crazy physics.
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SPOILERS



As I knew about the time reversing conceit before hand, I started to get impatient and wondered when that part of the story was going to kick in. In a typical story structure, the end of act one would be him stepping through the turnstyle...Then I realized...oh...he's showing us this hour of elaborate setup, so he can show it all again in reverse in a completely new way. It's a pretty ingenious break from conventional story structuring that I think makes the most of the conceit.
 
I've always wanted there to be a film that has many styles / genres within it. That is, the film starts out, say, as a musical and then it transitions into drama-style and then comedy, then horror, then documentary style / reality-tv show, then back to musical, etc.

For the first 10 minutes the film is a light, happy musical and then someone in the musical is murdered and the film transitions to a crime-drama and in the midst of the crime-drama it shifts into a comedy or a tv game show, and so on. With the storyline and characters continuing throughout. I doubt that most audience members would be able to handle it and would become so thrown off and confused by it that they'd shutdown. Audiences are used to films sticking to one genre, needless to say.

Natural Born Killers did this briefly when it genre-shifted to a television family-comedy before shifting back.

I'm kind of surprised it hasn't been done more. The obvious reason why it hasn't is that it challenges the audience more than sticking to one genre and genre-shift would tend to take the audience "out" of the film in similar way that breaking the fourth-wall does.

But it would be highly original and cool to see done.

Any films you know of that do anything like this, other than Natural Born Killers?
 
Liam Hall said:
I'm not sure yet.

It started well, with a great action sequence. Then it went into a series of scenes to set up the narrative and explain the faux-physics at the heart of the story. Some of these scenes I nearly laughed out loud at their ridiculousness. It felt like they hadn't quite worked it out themselves and twenty minutes in I said to myself this is Nolan's worst film. Forty-five minutes in, and despite Kenneth Branner doing a decent job as a Russian arms dealer and Elizabeth Debicki once again playing the fluffy, yet plucky wife I was convinced he'd lost the plot and become one of those insane megalomaniac directors where no one pushes back on their crazy ideas. But... ...then it all begins to make sense (sense, in terms of the faux-physics he painfully explained for forty minutes earlier) and then you can enjoy the spectacle. And it's quite a spectacle towards the end. Some very clever filmmaking even if the premise relies on some next level crazy physics.

Nolan's films are always interesting to watch and always have great soundtracks. I'm not sure how I'll feel about it in the morning. My head still hurts.
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Great little review.

So basically - Inception 2?

I feel like Nolan has been going downhill after Dark Knight in increasingly outlandish attempts to outdo his own cleverness.

It's like he's obsessed with puzzles. Maybe he always was, but I think the characters and relationships were more foregrounded before and kept the plot together
 
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JPNola said:
I've always wanted there to be a film that has many styles / genres within it. That is, the film starts out, say, as a musical and then it transitions into drama-style and then comedy, then horror, then documentary style / reality-tv show, then back to musical, etc.

For the first 10 minutes the film is a light, happy musical and then someone in the musical is murdered and the film transitions to a crime-drama and in the midst of the crime-drama it shifts into a comedy or a tv game show, and so on. With the storyline and characters continuing throughout. I doubt that most audience members would be able to handle it and would become so thrown off and confused by it that they'd shutdown. Audiences are used to films sticking to one genre, needless to say.

Natural Born Killers did this briefly when it genre-shifted to a television family-comedy before shifting back.

I'm kind of surprised it hasn't been done more. The obvious reason why it hasn't is that it challenges the audience more than sticking to one genre and genre-shift would tend to take the audience "out" of the film in similar way that breaking the fourth-wall does.

But it would be highly original and cool to see done.

Any films you know of that do anything like this, other than Natural Born Killers?
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From Dusk Till Dawn?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116367/
 
OK. It's morning. I've thought about it now.

Save your money, it's not worth catching COVID to go see this film. Probably Nolan's worst effort.

Too many lazy tropes (nasty Russian billionaire, winsome but weak wife, gentlemen's club with rude staff). Too much exposition. A central premise that relies on whacky physics. Too many needless characters. Clunky plot. Clunky character arcs. Clunky...

The core problem is you need to concentrate to understand and buy into the World Nolan is creating but in engaging your brain so strongly you notice all the faults with the concept, the characters and the plot, of which there are many.

Scratch below the surface and there is nothing.

It thinks it's a clever film. It's not.
 
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Liam Hall said:
Save your money, it's not worth catching COVID to go see this film. Probably Nolan's worst effort.
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I liked it more than Dunkirk. I found Dunkirk characterless and devoid of human interests. Tenet at least had a single protagonist I cared about following through the narrative. I'd rank them--

Dark Knight
Memento
The Prestige
Batman Begins
Inception
Interstellar
Dark Knight Rises
Tenet
Insomnia
Dunkirk

I haven't watched Following.
 
Batutta said:
I liked it more than Dunkirk. I found Dunkirk characterless and devoid of human interests. Tenet at least had a single protagonist I cared about following through the narrative. I'd rank them--

Dark Knight
Memento
The Prestige
Batman Begins
Inception
Interstellar
Dark Knight Rises
Tenet
Insomnia
Dunkirk

I haven't watched Following.
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You probably need to British (and of a certain age) to truly appreciate Dunkirk. It goes deep into our national psyche. My wife thought it was incredible, both my kids thought it was meh.

I pretty much agree with the rest of your list but would drop Inception down a couple of pegs.
 
Batutta said:
I liked it more than Dunkirk. I found Dunkirk characterless and devoid of human interests. Tenet at least had a single protagonist I cared about following through the narrative. I'd rank them--

Dark Knight
Memento
The Prestige
Batman Begins
Inception
Interstellar
Dark Knight Rises
Tenet
Insomnia
Dunkirk

I haven't watched Following.
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I largely agree with your list but I can't put dark knight above memento and prestige.

Insomnia I dont remember being that bad, but it's been a while.

Re:Tenet and Liam's morning-after thoughts, it sounds like the work of a man who's trying to incorporate cheap, familiar tropes to make an easy entry point into the story for an audience less conceptually-oriented than he is. It's the inherent problem in making popcorn movies for people who are less intellectual than the director - there's a lot of second-guessing.

But maybe the rest of the audience just thought, "Wow, awesome like omg!" Maybe we're the ones who are out of touch and Nolan will be laughing all the way to the bank.
 
ahalpert said:
I largely agree with your list but I can't put dark knight above memento and prestige.

Insomnia I dont remember being that bad, but it's been a while.

Re:Tenet and Liam's morning-after thoughts, it sounds like the work of a man who's trying to incorporate cheap, familiar tropes to make an easy entry point into the story for an audience less conceptually-oriented than he is. It's the inherent problem in making popcorn movies for people who are less intellectual than the director - there's a lot of second-guessing.

But maybe the rest of the audience just thought, "Wow, awesome like omg!" Maybe we're the ones who are out of touch and Nolan will be laughing all the way to the bank.
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I put the top three at the same top shelf level so the order doesn't matter. Insomnia is a perfectly fine film but it feels like small potatoes for Nolan, and not innovative the way Memento was. Dunkirk is the only film on the list I flat out dislike.
 
Batutta said:
I put the top three at the same top shelf level so the order doesn't matter. Insomnia is a perfectly fine film but it feels like small potatoes for Nolan, and not innovative the way Memento was. Dunkirk is the only film on the list I flat out dislike.
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Is it better to have a fine genre film that hits its mark or a splashy, high-concept film that bores me to tears (like Inception and Interstellar)?

Gravity and Arrival were both way better than Interstellar, as far as I remember
 
ahalpert said:
it sounds like the work of a man who's trying to incorporate cheap, familiar tropes to make an easy entry point into the story for an audience less conceptually-oriented than he is. It's the inherent problem in making popcorn movies for people who are less intellectual than the director - there's a lot of second-guessing.

But maybe the rest of the audience just thought, "Wow, awesome like omg!" Maybe we're the ones who are out of touch and Nolan will be laughing all the way to the bank.
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The film’s not without merit. Some of the action sequences are great to watch and technically very clever, but the plot, character development and some of the dialogue is poor. The real genius of Tenet though, was releasing it now. There’s nothing else to watch at the cinema and people are desperate for entertainment. It will be a hit for sure.
 
ahalpert said:
Is it better to have a fine genre film that hits its mark or a splashy, high-concept film that bores me to tears (like Inception and Interstellar)?

Gravity and Arrival were both way better than Interstellar, as far as I remember
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There are just certain directors I expect more out of. For example, there isn't much technically wrong with Bridge of Spies, but it seems like a movie forty other directors could have done just as well, and Spielberg's talents are wasted on it.

I don't understand how one could be bored by Inception or Interstellar. Not liking it, fine, but bored to tears?....I like all four of those movies. I don't like Dunkirk, but I didn't find it boring.
 
Batutta said:
I don't understand how one could be bored by Inception or Interstellar. Not liking it, fine, but bored to tears?....I like all four of those movies. I don't like Dunkirk, but I didn't find it boring.
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I haven't seen Dunkirk.

Inception - I remember there was a scene where we cut AGAIN from something with Leo to a shot of people doing a barrel roll in a car in slow motion to another scene and I felt like....enough already. I get the point that THIS amount of time over here equals THIS amount of time over there.

Fireworks can get tedious if you watch them long enough, especially if there's no artful dynamic in the ebb and flow and building to a climax of the show.

Interstellar i barely remember. I may have fallen asleep for a time, though I dont think that's my fault. I remember it being complicated.

I really liked the bit where McConaughey fell into the black hole. That was exciting and heroic. Although he spoiled it by stating the theme so clearly ("newton's third law - to move ahead you have to leave something behind.") The exact same theme was put so much more elegantly and implicitly in Gravity.

I nearly threw up in my mouth when love entered the equation. Something about love enabling time travel or something.

I felt the same way about it as I do about LOTR. I can watch a LOTR movie and feel like nothing happened. Or I can watch the Princess Bride and feel like I've just watched an epic.

Because the episodic storytelling and the ebbs and flows and pauses and rising/falling action of princess bride help me digest the story and experience its arc.

LOTR passes in front of me like a blur.

Or - someone posted a clip of one of the Hobbit movies where they're floating down a river in barrels. The first 90 seconds enthralled me. Genius directing with an eye on communicating movement and creating a variety of battle interactions. But then...it just kept going and going.

In other words, I think memento and prestige practiced far better narrative economy
 
SPOILERS



After pondering the film some more, one thing I think doesn't fundamentally work with Tenet is the villain's overall motivation for 'ending the world'. I didn't really buy it. And the how of how he plans to end the world is so difficult to get your head around it becomes abstract, which makes the stakes and suspense at the climax unable to really be felt.
 
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