Tascam HD-P2 Recording Help

tedwardo24

tedwardo24

Member
Hello,

I am renting the Tascam HD-P2 for dialog for a short film, and when I listen to the wav files in Soundtrack Pro, the audio levels are incredibly low. When I adjust the amplitude in Soundtrack Pro I can hear the dialog better but I can also hear the room noise better.... sigh.

What am I doing wrong?

I am using a Sennheiser shotgun mic with an XLR to the HD-P2. Both the left and right input levels are at 10 (out of 10); the Left/Right inputs are at MIC (XLR from shotgun mic is on left input); Phantom is on; Left and Right PAD are at 0; Low Cut is on; Limiter is On; Stereo Link is On.

In the headphones (set to about 7.5 on the dial) I can hear perfectly. Why when it is recorded is it recorded so low?

Any advice I would greatly appreciate. I am a beginner so feel free to over-explain if you have thoughts or suggestions.

thanks in advance!
 
tedwardo24 said:
Hello,

I am renting the Tascam HD-P2 for dialog for a short film, and when I listen to the wav files in Soundtrack Pro, the audio levels are incredibly low. When I adjust the amplitude in Soundtrack Pro I can hear the dialog better but I can also hear the room noise better.... sigh.

What am I doing wrong?

I am using a Sennheiser shotgun mic with an XLR to the HD-P2. Both the left and right input levels are at 10 (out of 10); the Left/Right inputs are at MIC (XLR from shotgun mic is on left input); Phantom is on; Left and Right PAD are at 0; Low Cut is on; Limiter is On; Stereo Link is On.

In the headphones (set to about 7.5 on the dial) I can hear perfectly. Why when it is recorded is it recorded so low?

Any advice I would greatly appreciate. I am a beginner so feel free to over-explain if you have thoughts or suggestions.

thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

What are the meters in FCP showing? What did the Tascam's meters show when recording? You cannot evaluate levels by listening, either when recording or during playback, unless you are in a properly calibrated environment and even then it's iffy. You MUST evaluate levels visually with the meters.

Correct recording technique would have the levels averaging a little bit above -12 dBFS on the Tascam's meters while recording speech. You could run it a little hotter if you're sure no unexpected loud sounds will occur that might accidently clip.

How far from the subject did you have the mic? Even shotguns need to be close ... they're not "telephotos for sound" and shotguns do not magnify distant sounds. Around 24 to 30 inches from the subject or so is usually optimum for a short 'gun. You said you had the recording level dials all the way up at 10 ... that sounds like the mic was way too far away to properly pick up the dialog.

Other record settings, for one mic into the left input would be 48kHz, your choice of 16 or 24 bit, MONO LEFT mode, Pad off, low cut on, limiter on, stereo link off, left recording level adjusted for proper levels indicated on the meter, right recording level control 0, headphone MONO LEFT and monitor level for comfort.
 
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Steve House said:
What are the meters in FCP showing? What did the Tascam's meters show when recording? You cannot evaluate levels by listening, either when recording or during playback, unless you are in a properly calibrated environment and even then it's iffy. You MUST evaluate levels visually with the meters.

Correct recording technique would have the levels averaging a little bit above -12 dBFS on the Tascam's meters while recording speech. You could run it a little hotter if you're sure no unexpected loud sounds will occur that might accidently clip.

How far from the subject did you have the mic? Even shotguns need to be close ... they're not "telephotos for sound" and shotguns do not magnify distant sounds. Around 24 to 30 inches from the subject or so is usually optimum for a short 'gun. You said you had the recording level dials all the way up at 10 ... that sounds like the mic was way too far away to properly pick up the dialog.

Other record settings, for one mic into the left input would be 48kHz, your choice of 16 or 24 bit, MONO LEFT mode, Pad off, low cut on, limiter on, stereo link off, left recording level adjusted for proper levels indicated on the meter, right recording level control 0, headphone MONO LEFT and monitor level for comfort.
Click to expand...

Thank you Steve-- I adjusted the settings on the HD-P2, made sure the dialog was around -12 dBFS, and I think I am at an acceptable point. I had the mic very close to the subject (6-12 inches), but that was good to reinforce the concept that shotgun mics do not magnify distant sounds.

I appreciate your response and thanks again!
 
What are the meters reading in STPro? They should be reading around -12dB just like they were when you recorded it.

If not, there was a recording problem.

If so, then you recorded it well, and dealing with background noise is just part of the process. When you turn it up, you have to turn up bg noise as well.

Aside from preventing it as much as possible during the recording process by recording in 24-bit and as hot (loud) as possible, there isn't much you can do except:

1. use a denoising software such as Waves Z-noise/X-noise or even iZotope RX (works wonders when used correctly). The denoisers in Logic (and therefore anything that comes with STP) are poor quality but you might be able to eliminate 3db of the background noise with a little noticeable detriment to the dialogue quality.
2. turn down the audio tracks when dialogue isn't present (you can only do this about 6-10dB without it being too noticeable... unless you have music come in, in which case you can fade out completely if you're careful)
3. as a last resort, use an EQ to take out a SMALL amount (3db) from the top end (12k and up)

or

4. ADR if you need to =)

of course, any semi-professional audio engineer will be able to do this for you. you really should find one anyway because dialogue sounds SO much better when mixed properly with EQ, compression, reverb, volume automation etc. it can add a million bucks to your production value =)

good luck!

Nathan
 
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4. ADR all the dialogue like the pros do =) no movies use production sound anymore - for anything - even dialogue.


Nathan[/QUOTE]


Is this actually true?
 
That may be possible for a 125 million dollar budget, but if you mic it right and make adjustments in post, it sounds fantastic.

ADR is not an easy task to perform at this level of production.

I also use the HDP2 and have never had any problems with it.
 
A great production sound crew can capture terrific dialog on set, that's why they get paid so much.

Nathan Rightnour said:
4. ADR all the dialogue like the pros do =) no movies use production sound anymore - for anything - even dialogue.
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This is not accurate.

It very much depends upon the type of film and the locations. Action films require a great deal of ADR; the sets are just too noisy to capture noise free production sound (generators, pyro, director and others giving instructions to actors and extras, etc.). The same applies to most green-screen work. It sometimes is used to replace dialog recorded on noisy streets, etc. Dramas are mostly production sound; interiors are very easy to control sonically and there is not much noise to interfere with the production dialog, so most of the dialog is production sound. It is not unusual to use dialog from unused takes; it's an easier match than ADR and the performance intensity is there.

Directors prefer production dialog; the talent is giving a performance which includes the physical and the vocal. It is very difficult for even the best actors to match the depth of a performance given on the set in an ADR booth.

To sum up; ADR is meant to replace unusable dialog from noisy sets, to correct technical difficulties, and to correct mumbled/inaudible lines. It is also used to dub TV versions for the elimination of curse words.
 
On the HD-P2, check to see if the pads are engaged - it's two switches on top of the recorder. Also, check your line/mic settings.

Another thing - I never go above 5 on the headphones so I get a better sense of what levels are being recorded.

Phil
 
unclebob6958 said:
A great production sound crew can capture terrific dialog on set, that's why they get paid so much.


This is not accurate.

It very much depends upon the type of film and the locations. Action films require a great deal of ADR; the sets are just too noisy to capture noise free production sound (generators, pyro, director and others giving instructions to actors and extras, etc.). The same applies to most green-screen work. It sometimes is used to replace dialog recorded on noisy streets, etc. Dramas are mostly production sound; interiors are very easy to control sonically and there is not much noise to interfere with the production dialog, so most of the dialog is production sound. It is not unusual to use dialog from unused takes; it's an easier match than ADR and the performance intensity is there.

Directors prefer production dialog; the talent is giving a performance which includes the physical and the vocal. It is very difficult for even the best actors to match the depth of a performance given on the set in an ADR booth.

To sum up; ADR is meant to replace unusable dialog from noisy sets, to correct technical difficulties, and to correct mumbled/inaudible lines. It is also used to dub TV versions for the elimination of curse words.
Click to expand...

http://filmsound.org/terminology/adr.htm
at :45 in the movie "replacing all the dialogue in the film"

OK so sometimes they salvage dialogue but a good actor can do a performance at any time. and, salvaging dialogue from the production track is just that: salvaging. it doesn't sound perfect. either they they're CERTAINLY not using internal laptop mics, theyre doing it right. someone using a cheap mic and decent technique isn't going to compare to a production track with great boom mics etc.
 
Steve2012 said:
That may be possible for a 125 million dollar budget, but if you mic it right and make adjustments in post, it sounds fantastic.

ADR is not an easy task to perform at this level of production.

I also use the HDP2 and have never had any problems with it.
Click to expand...

ADR is free, you just need to find a record/mix engineer. you can use a laptop mic if you're in a semi-studio setting. It doesn't cost $125 million.
 
Nathan Rightnour said:
http://filmsound.org/terminology/adr.htm
at :45 in the movie "replacing all the dialogue in the film"
Click to expand...
So you're basing your belief on one video clip which pertains to an action/CGI heavy film?

BTW, check out the latest issue of "Post" magazine. Tarrentino absolutely refuses to do any ADR whatsoever for his primary characters. He will change the lighting or even re-shoot an entire scene so that the production sound is perfect. Most directors don't have this level of obsession, but as I previously mentioned, directors prefer production dialog over ADR. The same applies to the "Transformers" films; with the exception of the action scenes the film is almost all production dialog. "Amalie" is almost completely production dialog. I could give more examples, but maintaining that most films are primarily looped dialog is flat out wrong.
 
Nathan Rightnour said:
ADR is free, you just need to find a record/mix engineer...
Click to expand...

I fail to see how you conclude ADR is free based on that statement.

If you're able to find a recording engineer to work for free, and actors willing to redo their lines for free, and your time isn't worth anything, then I guess you could say ADR is free.
 
unclebob6958 said:
So you're basing your belief on one video clip which pertains to an action/CGI heavy film?

BTW, check out the latest issue of "Post" magazine. Tarrentino absolutely refuses to do any ADR whatsoever for his primary characters. He will change the lighting or even re-shoot an entire scene so that the production sound is perfect. Most directors don't have this level of obsession, but as I previously mentioned, directors prefer production dialog over ADR. The same applies to the "Transformers" films; with the exception of the action scenes the film is almost all production dialog. "Amalie" is almost completely production dialog. I could give more examples, but maintaining that most films are primarily looped dialog is flat out wrong.
Click to expand...

so I edited my original post.
 
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Denis Haineault said:
I fail to see how you conclude ADR is free based on that statement.

If you're able to find a recording engineer to work for free, and actors willing to redo their lines for free, and your time isn't worth anything, then I guess you could say ADR is free.
Click to expand...

correct. many good engineers are willing to work for lo/no pay for a project that means something for their career in the future. I cant speak for actors, but I bet I could find a ton of students who are very good who would do it for a credit.
 
Nathan Rightnour said:
correct. many good engineers are willing to work for lo/no pay for a project that means something for their career in the future. I cant speak for actors, but I bet I could find a ton of students who are very good who would do it for a credit.
Click to expand...

Sure you could. But would you be willing to stake your professional reputation, your ability to raise funds from anyone sane for any future projects, your mortgage payments for the next 10 years plus your kids' college fund, on the ability of one of those students to actually deliver the goods?
 
I'd bet that robin williams was a better actor in college than many professional actors at the time were. not that there are robin williams jr's running around in mass quantities, but I'm saying it's possible to find great actors around that don't expect a huge budget.

either way, like I said, I can't speak for actors. However I do know that there are audio engineers in college that can do a much better job than someone who isn't studying audio engineering (the filmmaker).
 
Nathan Rightnour said:
I'd bet that robin williams was a better actor in college than many professional actors at the time were. not that there are robin williams jr's running around in mass quantities, but I'm saying it's possible to find great actors around that don't expect a huge budget.

either way, like I said, I can't speak for actors. However I do know that there are audio engineers in college that can do a much better job than someone who isn't studying audio engineering (the filmmaker).
Click to expand...


You have not said anything that makes any sense in this thread but you have said it with utter conviction. Well done!
 
stringz said:
You have not said anything that makes any sense in this thread but you have said it with utter conviction. Well done!
Click to expand...

my point is that you will get better results if you find an audio engineer to process your dialogue, and you can find one for lo/no pay. I apologize if I was confusing.
 
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Wow, Nathan, nicely hijacked thread. The OP was asking about a problem with his HD-P2. To the OP - did you figure out your problem?
 
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