taboo kickstarter question.

Gord.T

Gord.T

Still "Senior Member"
So many people have started kickstarter campaigns. I know everyone wants money to help shoot their story and maybe they get insulted if one does not contribute.
By contributing money what exactly is in it for me? A credit? A mention on a web site?

I'm not seeing any kind of investment deal going on with these. A shareholder if you wish. That would be a good place to start.

I want money too. We all do, to get our projects done.
I not really interested in contributing to any kickstarter program without some kind of payoff. That's just a handout isn't it?
I can't even beg a quarter off the street but my friend can make 200 bucks a day doing it because she's pretty.

So, people are asking me to give them money, like everyone else on the planet, to help them? And I get nothing in return?


I know it's late in the night for Gordy but is there any logic in this? If not, I'll self destruct the thread.
-Thank you and I'll see you all at the Crazy Crab Cafe where I will be performing until I fall off my piano bench right shortly.
-Cheers.
 
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So I guess the big question is "What's in it for me?" assuming that you think I have an unlimited bank account to throw money at your project hoping I can see it on youtube someday. Because I believe in you.

No s*%t, I give money to people I truly believe in because I do, not because they ask for it. The whole asking for money thing is, I don't like it. Sorry. And if I don't throw money at you, and I'm talking 50 bucks, then no problems. Your talking to the wrong guy anyways so get off my facebook page and quite bothering my friends and family. -beerskis. So , I hope to hear some feedback on kickstarter deals and how people feel about giving away money. I don't expect to but, hey. I had fun tonight boozing a bit. What about the questions though?
 
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For most reasonable kickstarter campaigns, there are rewards for pledges over a certain amount. What's nice is that your $10-20 may be insignificant, but when combined with the contribution of many others it can become quite a serious fund. If it's a narrative film that you have taken interest in due to subject matter, I feel you are definitely rewarded for the most part in a few ways:

1) Helping something get made that YOU are personally interested in.
2) You do usually get some form of compensation or reward for your pledge soon after you've contributed
3) The satisfaction of helping out a fellow artist or filmmaker produce a film, and then seeing it come to fruition months or years later.
4) Reputation on the site, where others can see that you've personally contributed to other projects- this will come in handy if you ever decide to launch one of your own!

If you can't see how this is beneficial to everyone in the filmmaking community, then I don't know what to say.
 
Here`s a better question in hindsight.
How much money have you given to KickStarter projects in the past and what have you seen in return?
 
I've contributed to a few band's kickstarter's and gotten digital downloads of the album they were raising money to record. Something in the $10-15 range.

If it's a friend's project and I believe in it, I'll give more and then I don't really care what the rewards are.
 
I've contributed to 2 docs that are still in production. I get a copy of the shows, which nobody would get, if I didn't contribute along with others.

If you have no interest in the project there's no expectation that you contribute anything.
 
Gord.T said:
Here`s a better question in hindsight.
How much money have you given to KickStarter projects in the past and what have you seen in return?
Click to expand...

I've backed 38 projects so far. and get a real kick out of helping microbudget movies (that look promising and demonstrate an ability to execute at a high level) get made. most I've given is $100, but usually I pledge $25. If it's something I'm especially excited about, I'll do what I can to let others know about it and why I backed it. it's an opportunity to experiment with new funding models. and full disclosure: I've run a successful campaign of my own.

what do i get out of it? I am rewarded by helping someone take another step toward being a better storyteller, a better filmmaker. I like "discovering" new voices and new works. and it's nice when about a year down the road I get my dvd or blu-ray in the mail and add it to the collection of other titles i've backed. frankly, i do it for the same reason i do most things: because it feels good.
 
I've backed films (yet to be completed) and music. I usually opt for the 'digital download' tier, so $10 or so. It isn't much, but I feel it is fair both ways - I help them, and get to see their film in the end. I'm not really into buying an associate producer credit for $5000 though...
 
I've given money to maybe a dozen KS projects (all were either movies/docs or musicians) and I think I've gotten (or will get) copies of the finished work out of it. I'm sure there were other perks too but that's not why I donate so I tend to forget or miss out on them. I give to projects I think are worthwhile because I want to see them make it.


Zak Forsman said:
what do i get out of it? I am rewarded by helping someone take another step toward being a better storyteller, a better filmmaker. I like "discovering" new voices and new works. and it's nice when about a year down the road I get my dvd or blu-ray in the mail and add it to the collection of other titles i've backed. frankly, i do it for the same reason i do most things: because it feels good.
Click to expand...
Couldn't have said it better myself.


-Andrew
 
asking what you get in a return on a collaborative site/forum is a bit silly - what do any of us get in return for posting here or helping out? we get the chance to help our industry evolve, and let the storytellers, the talented, the relentless, the hardworking, the visionaries that are out there sprout up from the mud. it should make you feel good to help someone create something unique that they may have never had the opportunity to do had they been born 5-10-15 years ago. Your $5 donation could be instrumental in creating the next generation of filmmakers/directors/producers - will that for sure happen? odds are against it, but without faith in these people we'll never evolve and adapt as a whole. and, I suppose if you're going for guaranteed ROI then you're probably in the wrong place to begin with. I've backed several KS projects, one of which is a food truck in my local community. Now I get to see that truck on a daily basis with lines down the block. Pretty frakin' awesome if you ask me.

Adam
 
Gord.T said:
So many people have started kickstarter campaigns. I know everyone wants money to help shoot their story and maybe they get insulted if one does not contribute.
By contributing money what exactly is in it for me? A credit? A mention on a web site?

I'm not seeing any kind of investment deal going on with these. A shareholder if you wish. That would be a good place to start.
Click to expand...

There are SEC rules on how one offers investment opportunities, and I think Kickstart probably violates such, and the people using Kickstart, probably don't have the money for conforming to SEC rules on accounting, incorporation, etc. However the SEC can't regulate 'donation' with perhaps some 'reward' of minimal or nominal monetary value.
 
Gord.T said:
Here`s a better question in hindsight.
How much money have you given to KickStarter projects in the past and what have you seen in return?
Click to expand...

The disconnect here is that many people participating in crowd-funding do not have that type of mindset. They help fund something because they want to directly support the artists or project, are passionate about the project for one reason or another and want to help see it made, or want to be able to feel apart of helping something they care about be made. You're approaching this from a typical business perspective, whereas I'd wager most "funders" are on a different playing field in that regards.
 
Actually, J1clark, it does not violate SEC rules. It is not a real investment, where you are expecting your money to return with interest. It is more of a donation, which is outside SEC purview, one that you may receive a "gift" for your donation.

The second that any KS project does promise money back and interest, then the SEC will be concerned. Although too many people bandy the word "investment" way too much when seeking assistance financially for their film.

Here is the rule I use when some one asks me to "invest" in their film: "How much interest will I receive on my investment? 10% or 15%? Can I see your SEC Filing for Investment Offering?" If they look at me blankly and not have a clue about what I am talking about......I know they just want a donation.
 
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Doc Bernard said:
Actually, J1clark, it does not violate SEC rules. It is not a real investment, where you are expecting your money to return with interest. It is more of a donation, which is outside SEC purview, one that you may receive a "gift" for your donation.

The second that any KS project does promise money back and interest, then the SEC will be concerned.
Click to expand...

I wasn't clear... the way KS is setup now would violate SEC rules on investments, were there such offerings. This was in answer to the OP's:

I'm not seeing any kind of investment deal going on with these. A shareholder if you wish. That would be a good place to start.
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KS can't do this... so, the only 'reward' is the 'gift' of credit, or some item of little monetary value. (So, no diamond studded Blueray disk cassettes... Zirconium maybe...).
 
+ for J1clark with an assist by Doc!

afoyH.gif
 
You don't invest in Kickstarters, you purchase something before it's made, and if the kickstarter is successful they make it and send it to you. Movies, gravy boats, shoes, whatever. If enough people pay, they make it, then send it to you. If there's not enough demand, they don't make it. There is no investment.

This is one of my favorite kickstarters recently:
[video]http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/54477278/puking-kitty-saucy-boat[/video]
 
Gillvane said:
You don't invest in Kickstarters, you purchase something before it's made, and if the kickstarter is successful they make it and send it to you. Movies, gravy boats, shoes, whatever. If enough people pay, they make it, then send it to you. If there's not enough demand, they don't make it. There is no investment.

This is one of my favorite kickstarters recently:
[video]http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/54477278/puking-kitty-saucy-boat[/video]
Click to expand...

Well said, that is the fundamental flaw in the approach taken by Gord.T and others. This is essentially a new way of business funding, can't really treat it the same as the old investment model.
 
I have contributed for the same reason as most... to help fellow artists, usually ones I know or have worked with. I use Indie Go Go through Fractured Atlas a 501c3 umbrella organization so minus the small perqs those donations are tax deductible. We think that provides an incentive for larger donors.

For the OP. Check this out: http://www.forbes.com/sites/tanyaprive/2012/11/06/inside-the-jobs-act-equity-crowdfunding-2/

There are changes coming regarding crowd funding and equity with the passing of the JOBS Act in April 2012 that may provide a solution to funding small concerns. I am very interested in this development.

"With the launch of the JOBS Act, short for Jumpstart Our Business Startups, the ability for the general public to receive company equity in exchange for funding is now a possibility.... Now that the JOBS Act has passed, the US Securities Exchange Commission (SEC) has been instructed by Congress to step in and monitor the new changes before the Act can take effect for equity crowdfunding...The SEC exists to regulate financial Federal laws, and protect the public from potential fiscal misuse regarding these laws.... The SEC is still hammering out its rules. The commission was given until January 2013 to set the rules, but is widely expected to miss that deadline." - Forbes

It's coming soon that you will be able to used crowdfunding to garner investment but for now it's all donations for me, all the way through, tax-deductible!
 
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refocusedmedia said:
This is essentially a new way of business funding, can't really treat it the same as the old investment model.
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But it's been abused so much now that I think we're going to see a huge drop off of people actually contributing money. You can only expect the masses to flush their money down your particular toilet for so long.
 
Gary Huff said:
But it's been abused so much now that I think we're going to see a huge drop off of people actually contributing money. You can only expect the masses to flush their money down your particular toilet for so long.
Click to expand...

The negative perception is pretty scarce, from what I've seen. There have been a few unfortunate cases that gained mention in popular media outlets, but there is no overwhelming sense of apprehensiveness that I'm aware of. If there is or it develops in the future, I think it just means there will be less generosity for unknowns or those who do not do a good job of establishing who they are and what they're planning to do with the funds. Transparency will continue to be key, regardless.
 
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