Super 16mm or 2-perf 35mm?

Finnegan

Finnegan

Well-known member
I'm DPing a short film in two months and the director and I have decided that film best suits the story. Initially we chose S16 as our format of choice, but are possibly reconsidering due to aspect ratio - we want to finish in 2.35 but evidently S16 anamorphic lenses are hard to come by and expensive. Charlie Rose AIC suggested shooting 2-perf 35mm instead, as transfers for that are standard and it renders roughly a 2.35 aspect ratio.

The question is whether or not 2-perf 35mm is cheaper than shooting S16 in the long run, given that we are efficient shooters. Would it be a better idea to run with S16 and just seek out a transfer lab that can unsqueeze the image as well as strike a deal with Panavision for their anamorphics, or just shoot 2-perf 35mm?
 
Small correction on my part. You'll get 32 frames per foot with 2 perf. So you will have 25% more feet to shoot if you shot 2 perf compared to 16mm. So depending on how much you are looking at shooting, and the price of each package that might save you money.
 
Two-perf 35mm is the way to go, I say. Much larger image area, and no fiddling around with anamorphics, you can use inexpensive spherical lenses. And the total amount of "footage" will be close to the same, as PhilJackson said, which means processing will cost close to the same, or not much more. And if you are shooting ends & recans, those are far more common in 35mm than they are in 16mm, and probably cheaper (although I haven't bought any short ends in years, so I'm not up on the current market). And it'll probably be a lot easier to find a lab that can deal with 2-perf 35mm than it will be to find one that can deal with anamorphic S16. And the image will look better since 2-perf 35mm uses about 3x as much surface area on the negative as S16 does, and you'll still have 35mm DOF instead of 16mm DOF.
 
If you really need to shoot 2.35, you definitely want to opt for 2-perf 35mm. I heard of a Russian 35 camera that rents pretty cheap. I almost pulled the trigger on it too, but the project fell through.

Although I really love the S16 for quality and affordability. Recently shot a music video (I directed/edited) on the Aaton XTR Prod. Results in the conditions low-light conditions we were shooting in were awesome. The outdoor stuff with the girl was all natty light (street lights, car lights, storefronts), and the stuff of the band was tricky because we had that flashing fluorescent mixed with two projectors. S16 handled it brilliantly.
Check it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhQ4Hwwjf08

I also DP'd a short film on S16 on the same camera, and we shot no lights the whole time and got a quality looking short.

But I mean... 35 is 35. You'll kill either way IMHO!
-Max
 
the rental from the s16 anamorphic lenses will kill your budget.
If you're going to shoot s16 i'd shoot spherical and crop. Worked for the wrestler.

There are SOME options for 2 perf cameras. The best (in my opinion) is the Aaton Penelope, but it's pretty expensive and hard to get. Panavision has converted a good deal of their cameras to 2 perf too. Clairmont has also converted some of their arri's to 2 perf. 35mm cameras are still expensive though, so the rentals can be rough.

As usual the s16 cameras will be smaller, lighter, and generally cheaper.
 
I should add that during that music video shoot, for the most part the entire crew consisted of two people: the DP and myself. A bunch of those dolly shots, we closed off the eyepiece, DP pulled focus and I was on my hands and knees pushing the dolly! Nitty-gritty just like S16!

lalugela said:
If you really need to shoot 2.35, you definitely want to opt for 2-perf 35mm. I heard of a Russian 35 camera that rents pretty cheap. I almost pulled the trigger on it too, but the project fell through.

Although I really love the S16 for quality and affordability. Recently shot a music video (I directed/edited) on the Aaton XTR Prod. Results in the conditions low-light conditions we were shooting in were awesome. The outdoor stuff with the girl was all natty light (street lights, car lights, storefronts), and the stuff of the band was tricky because we had that flashing fluorescent mixed with two projectors. S16 handled it brilliantly.
Check it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhQ4Hwwjf08

I also DP'd a short film on S16 on the same camera, and we shot no lights the whole time and got a quality looking short.

But I mean... 35 is 35. You'll kill either way IMHO!
-Max
Click to expand...
 
lalugela said:
Although I really love the S16 for quality and affordability. Recently shot a music video (I directed/edited) on the Aaton XTR Prod. Results in the conditions low-light conditions we were shooting in were awesome. The outdoor stuff with the girl was all natty light (street lights, car lights, storefronts), and the stuff of the band was tricky because we had that flashing fluorescent mixed with two projectors. S16 handled it brilliantly.
Check it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhQ4Hwwjf08

-Max
Click to expand...

Great looking video. Film still rules when it comes to overall dynamic range, especially holding details in the highlights.
 
As long as your cool with not having any protected areas of the image for shot repos in post and you are good with the costs of going through a DI, then 35mm 2-perf is the way to go.
 
pdsage10 said:
As long as your cool with not having any protected areas of the image for shot repos in post and you are good with the costs of going through a DI, then 35mm 2-perf is the way to go.
Click to expand...

They wouldn't have any ability to reframe in post if they went with anamorphic lenses on S16 either right? Regardless with actual viewfinders it's a lot easier to see stuff coming into frame.
 
Not sure how shooting s16 with an anamorphic squeeze is gonna work out for your final format of 2.40 Gonna be some cropping in there somewhere. If you wanna go the 16mm route, why wouldn't you just shoot standard 16mm with an anamorphic squeeze?
 
Vantage now make 1.3x squeeze lenses for s16 that are very expensive. I believe fletcher, in chicago either have a set or are getting one soon.
 
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