super 16 question

H

hmfilmer

Active member
Does "super 16" mean it can record sound, or is that depend on the camera? what 16 camera can record sound? thanks

hmfilmer
 
1) Film cameras don't record sound. Not 16, s16, 35mm.
2) Sound is recorded dual source for film, onto Mag or a digital recorder
2a) Sound is only attached to film for Final Prints in post production. The only formats that can contain sound are regular 16mm - mono or DTS only and 35mm.
3) 16mm is dual perf (sprocket holes on both sides of the film) and is 4x3 aspect ratio.
4) Back in the day, to get widescreen with a cheaper film, 16mm, some bright people took the sprocked holes off of one side and made the film single perf but, they added more film to shoot on. So with a modified camera gate, you can capture higher rez images at a widescreen ratio, similar to 35mm and 16x9.
5) Please note that super16 is NEVER for projection. Sound cannot go on it. So your choices are twofold: you telecine to a digital or tape format and never go back to film, or you blow up your super 16mm to 35mm for a theatrical print, like Leaving Las Vegas or Pi did.


Hope this helps.
 
There was an old 16mm film camera that did record sound to a mag stripe on the side of the film... much like a 8mm or Super 8 cameras... but that is long gone... in the 16mm world and I think it was never in the 35mm world of film...

Plus I forget how far your sound is a head of your picture due to running through a projector... if I remember right its 18 frames ahead... so your cut would have to always be 18 frames ahead of where you want it... unless now your cutting on a NLE and had the footage transfered to video... or a hard drive...

I think the reason for the single source was in the old days TV crews shot with film cameras... that way they could rush it to the lab and save time syncing the audio for broadcast that night or day... and for also just having a one man film/tv crew to cover stories...

I remember my uncle had one... because I was going to do a music video for a friend who didn't have much money and was trying to save him transfer to video time...

That's when my uncle told me had just sold this old 16mm camera that recorded the sound on the film... two days before we talked about it...
 
...but now, in this day NO FILM CAMERA RECORDS SOUND. And if it does for some strange archaic reason, you wouldn't use that sound anyway. Sounds like you got a lot to learn about film before approaching its use.
 
So you now, people who want to film a video in 16mm have to record the sound on something else? your right i do have alot to learn about film i am just got into it and have no experience with film cameras. but i just got into it like 6 month ago.
 
hmfilmer said:
So you now, people who want to film a video in 16mm have to record the sound on something else?
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If you want a video, shoot video.

If you're filming in 16mm, it's a film.

"DAT" recorders are what most big budget movies use, I don't know if they are called that anymore, but if you google that you'll probably have a bunch of hits.

hmfilmer said:
your right i do have alot to learn about film i am just got into it and have no experience with film cameras. but i just got into it like 6 month ago.
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Start with a cheaper digital camera.

3k to invest may seem like alot now, but down the road it will pay for itself where film costs would have soared throug the roof.
 
i have been working with ditgal cameras. but i wont start with 16mm camera right off, but i will probably start with super 8 or something, i mainly just want to have idea what film camera to use if i were to shot in 16mm and still have sound. sorry i am newbie with film stuff. but thank you for explaining to me.

hmfilmer
 
"super" in a film's name means that it's using a larger amount of the frame than the "regular" format.

So there's 35mm, and then there's "Super 35mm".
There's 16mm, and then there's "Super 16mm."
There's 8mm, and then there's "Super 8mm."

In the case of Super 8 and Super 35, the frame is larger in both directions. In the case of Super 16, it's wider but not taller.

Super gets wider because it uses the soundtrack area for more picture area.

And there's basically no sound-on-film recording going on anymore. Maybe you could do a hideous-quality optical soundtrack on an Auricon, but that's about it...
 
hdfilmer... why use a really expensive 16mm to learn exposure on film
buy a Canon Ae1 and you can shoot and pratice shooting 35mm.... after awhile you feel pre`tty confident to use any kind of format, but after that , in each format you have to adapt...... so what it seems is that you have to learn the basics of photography first... then composition and from there on you can shoot as much as you want


SO: to learn to tell stories you don't need a 16mm camera

get a still photo camera and buy 2 rolls of 24 pictures
with one concentrate on light, composition, overall picture quality, go artsy! have fun

on the second roll... tell story with it... on 24 pictures it can be anything: example
you waking up, your girlsfriend day ... etc just tell the story... after that make a short with your video camera... and then the progression continues until you have the knowledge to go and pursuit on film motion cameras or even expensive high ress digital cams like REd


Best
 
thanks..

i did some research after i post, so i get it now, but thanks again for answering my question..

i am not sure what i am going to try to do, but i really want to get into film, so i probably going to take some college coruse, and then see about making a short film..
 
If you really want to shoot film, then do a lot of research into it. If, after researching, you still want to shoot film - then shoot film. There's a reason why some people will never shoot video - it doesn't look like film, no matter how much you spend on the camera. Just make sure you realize all the costs involved - film processing as well as telecine so that you can work with a digital intermediate (or, most likely in your case, a digital final.)

Super 16 has a wider frame size because there's only perferations on one side of the film.
 
yeah i wouldn't just go out and spend 2,000 dollar or whatever on a camera package that i wouldn't know to anything about, i also have been doing alot research on these cameras, so i can perpare myself for some classes.
 
hmfilmer said:
yeah i wouldn't just go out and spend 2,000 dollar or whatever on a camera package that i wouldn't know to anything about, i also have been doing alot research on these cameras, so i can perpare myself for some classes.
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This is if you buy the camera. You're only going to use it when you're shooting, so why not rent it? Maybe you'll use it so much that it'll be less expensive to pay one time?

Rodriguez borrowed a friend's film camera for "El Mariachi". He says (in El Mariachi's commentary) that after editing the project, he shopped it to studios with a VHS tape, not 35mm prints. This cut down on his cost greatly. If you're shooting a short in 16mm and then blowing it up to 35, expect to throw away a couple thou. Don't know if this really applies here, I thought it might.
 
I agree with above posts. If you are interested in being a DP and want to learn about film, grab the oldest simplest manual film camera you can get (I had some old olympus somewhere)... grab some prime lenses and a zoom lens. None of this stuff needs to be great, no bells and whistles. I'd try and make sure it has a spot meter though, or you will need to purchase an incident meter (which can be costly)

Then get some Black and White film and and do a lot of shooting. You'll learn WORLDS about film, fast.

That used to be my recommendation to everyone. Nowardays I have a slight alteration to it: If you are looking into learning the principles of capturing an image, instead of a FILM still camera, grab a Nikon D50 or D70 with a good zoom lens. Why? While these are DIGITAL cameras, not FILM cameras, you can flip them on manual mode and learn all of the things any DP or photographer needs to know: Exposure, Apeture, Iris, F-Stop, ASA, composition, etc... all of these terms can be covered, and you can shoot thousands of pictures without developing.

Then, the next step is to learn the differences between digital and film. There are many arguments, many technical things to learn, etc, but the basics are the basics.
 
i am thinking about taking some classes at a community college that its focus is film, and hope i learn abunch from that, so i will know how to use a "film camera", and in the mean time i will practice with a super 8 or a regular 35mm photo camera. then when i feel that can use a super 16 camera or something to make my film, i will do that..
 
Good for you, hmfilmer. You wanna shoot film - so load up a Bolex and shoot film. Be a filmmaker. Like everyone says, it's more expensive, but there's nothing like the sound of film humming through the gate. And then spend alittle more to have it transferred to tape so you can edit it on your computer (I promise you don't want to get into Moviolas and flatbeds). Make your first film voice-over so that you don't have to worry about recording sound on location. And when you are done, you can say you are a filmmaker. There ain't many around anymore. Good luck. Have fun.
 
Super 8 is a great way to start as well. It's not too inexpensive. And, from what I've heard, they come out with better 8mm film stock just like 16mm and 35mm. As cyclone stated, you can always pick up a Bolex and shoot some 16mm. You should be able to find one on craigslist or ebay. And yes, edit on a computer!
 
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