Sun competing Led?

M

morgan_moore

Major Contributor
Got a job coming up that may need some punch on daylight exts. (nothing like a 1.1 panel.. a light that might compete with a 2.5 hmi)

Is it time to buy some lights? (am getting rental quotes too)

Basically Id like OK CRI and a wodge of power.

Im not personally keen on HMI due to cost/compexity/strike times bla bla

I have a 1000 (and a 2.5k) petrol gennies, Ideall a couple of lights would work on this.

Im not really bothered about DMX, or variable colour temp.. just power.

Usually I would be shooting into or through some form of diffusion modifier.

I saw this which at 360w draw could be interesting but no concept of price.
https://twitter.com/Photonbeard/status/705269976681181184

I guess a fresnel type fixture would be ideal as it will pack down small.

Im unlikely to be interested in any chinese ebay stuff. (?)

A typical scene might be early evening, hotel group at table, waiter arrives. Probably light 2m back through a 8.4 scrim.

Chat away :)

Here is a picture of one of the potential locations, you will see the outside is completely blown.

in this setup id place the light camera right and fill from the left with a silver board, keeping the backlit motivation alive

eden_top.jpg

S
 
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The only LEDs that come to mind with that kinda punch, are the Mole Richardson MoleLED Senior (A 5kw tungsten/1.2kw HMI equivalent LED fresnel with 900w power draw - which costs a bit less than your standard Arri 1.2kw HMI). Colour is supposed to be decent.

The other option is the Nila Arina, which can match a 2.5kw HMI for output with only 800w draw, but will have the usual LED multi-source shadows, and I've yet to find any clear data on TLCI or CRI for it.

Honestly, if you're going to buy something, buy a used HMI from a decent brand. They're reasonably affordable, the colour is okay, and so long as you get a power-factor corrected ballast - you won't have any issues striking from portable generators and the like. They're such good lights to have. Really the only decent option for fighting daylight from a wall socket (though if you can stretch to an M18 that does even better).

If you do want to play the safer route of solid state, LED tech (with the added advantage of full dimming without colour shift) I'd probably say go for the Mole. $4,500 USD is a pretty reasonable price for that kind of output.

Mole also apparently have a 10k tungsten/2.5k HMI equivalent LED fresnel coming this NAB! Very cool.
 
Yep Mole is on my radar. I dunno why Im not drawn to HMI.. they just seem, I dunno, not that robust.

A 500-1000w mole seems the thing in terms of paper spec.

Nila Ill check that too.. Im not sure if im scared of multi source as I cant really see a situation where I would not be using a diffusor of some nature.

Other brands seem to be JAB and AAdentech.


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Just be aware that the fixtures for all of these are huge. The Mole 900w is 18.6kg, and the Nila Arina is 31.5kg.

They don't have ballasts to worry about, and if you add the weight of the ballast to the weight of an Arri M18 you're at a similar overall weight to the Mole. But unlike the HMI, all of that weight is in the head, and therefore needs to go on a stand - and a proper big boy stand at that.
 
Yep.. being realistic on budget and size Im liking the look of the mole 400 X 2 rather than a single 900

400s are 6$/watt
900 are 4.8$/watt

Cost seems to equate to 6 weeks rental of HMI, Ive probably got the first two covered.

S
 
Two 400w Moles could be handy, certainly more versatile for some things. Though you'd be lacking a bit for output when it comes to wanting a single source that you can punch through a bedroom/kitchen/small office window. A 1.2k HMI seems to be the minimum you can get away with for that unless you're putting an uncorrected 2kw tungsten through for 'dawn/light' and don't need a lot of level.

I still tend to think that the Arri M18 is really the ultimate 'indie' light. You can plug it into a wall, and it's got just enough punch to key through an outside window, balance a small/medium sized interior against a bright daytime exterior, or (with a modern camera, and fast lenses) can light up a solid acre for a nightime exterior - and do it running off just a little 3kw suitcase gennie. It's the only light that gives you enough output to have some genuine control in a wide-range of situations, and not be limited to 'working in with the existing light'.
 
$800 Chinese ARRI HMI 575w, about 1500w-2000w (approx) output in 5600k. I've owned one for a few years, never let me down. I take care of my equipment, it takes care of me.

Worried about it "breaking" like the internet wants you to believe. Buy two.


Then there's always the one we were discussing in the other thread:
Around $900 USD. Westcott Skylux. 1200w equivalent but LED with quite high cri.
 
Grug said:
I still tend to think that the Arri M18 is really the ultimate 'indie' light.
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$10g for a single fixture is probably beyond me, esp as it wont (I guess) run off our 1 or 2.5k gennies.

Good point about the single sun through window look.

The solid state of LED appeals.. I can imagine mounting it in my van when doing tracking shots, Im not sure an HMI would like the bumps?

Also any comments about running in the rain. It would seem that cooler lights could more safely be wrapped in something to keep the weather out?

I come from stills and my 'Quantum' strobes happily operate in foul conditions with a transparent bin bag over them :)

S
 
starcentral said:
$800 Chinese ARRI HMI 575w, about 1500w-2000w (approx) output in 5600k. I've owned one for a few years, never let me down. I take care of my equipment, it takes care of me.

Worried about it "breaking" like the internet wants you to believe. Buy two.


Then there's always the one we were discussing in the other thread:
Around $900 USD. Westcott Skylux. 1200w equivalent but LED with quite high cri.
Click to expand...

There is a vid of the Skylux online and the presenter is standing near it without being cooked.. it did not look that bright. I wish there was a reliable metric.. if Im spending money Ill use my own metric which is go to a physical store and check them out.. which also kind of rules out internet no brand purchases.

Edit the skylux I now see has 100w draw, making it $10/watt.. (uk price).. now assuming that the fixtures have the same efficiency this is not up there with Mole in terms of watts per dollar, add in that the moles are fresnels one could extrapolate that the lumens per watt of the moles would be higher and therefore the lumens per dollar higher.

Also (and this may be a foolish thought) Im kind of seeing that I could rent them in my circle of chums and two Moles (get the 900 later to complete the package) would seem at a level where they have enough 'cache' to rent - again LED is a boon here with solid state, and powers well within a domestic ring or suitcase genny. My minimal experience of HMI was just sort of scary - lots of buzzing and ticking and some failed strikes.

S
 
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morgan_moore said:
$10g for a single fixture is probably beyond me, esp as it wont (I guess) run off our 1 or 2.5k gennies.

Good point about the single sun through window look.

The solid state of LED appeals.. I can imagine mounting it in my van when doing tracking shots, Im not sure an HMI would like the bumps?

Also any comments about running in the rain. It would seem that cooler lights could more safely be wrapped in something to keep the weather out?

S
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I've run M18s off 2.5kw Yamaha portable gennies before, I haven't had many issues running them at full power, but sometimes you have to dim them just a touch if the gennie's having trouble keeping up.

In the rain, it's obviously really nice to have something like my Area48s, which you just throw a battery on the back, a clear plastic bag over the top... and voila, waterproof lighting!

With HMIs (and I suspect those large 400w+ LEDs), you're kinda stuck with rigging umbrellas overhead to avoid plastic melting on to your lights.

morgan_moore said:
Also (and this may be a foolish thought) Im kind of seeing that I could rent them in my circle of chums and two Moles (get the 900 later to complete the package) would seem at a level where they have enough 'cache' to rent - again LED is a boon here with solid state, and powers well within a domestic ring or suitcase genny. My minimal experience of HMI was just sort of scary - lots of buzzing and ticking and some failed strikes.

S
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Two of the 400w and one 900w MoleLED would be a really appealing package to have. Solid state, dimmable, and you could run them all of a single 10amp household socket.
 
starcentral said:
The chinese 575w and 1200w HMI's are Came brand. Tommy (who shoots and does all his own VFX on his own sci-fi series) did a video review of LED and HMI lights from Came. Check it out.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...iew-CAME-TV-CE-1500WS-LED-Fresnel-Style-Light

Otherwise why not just rent a couple ARRI 575's? Where I live, they are pretty cheap to rent for a day and if there are issues with the lights they will address them right away.
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Again though, ALWAYS check for 'power factor corrected' ballasts with HMIs - ESPECIALLY the chinese clones (I've been burnt three separate times).
 
What about the Aadyn Punch Plus? It's frequently used in place of HMIs. Just a matter of whether it's available in Australia.
 
I looked at the big Aadyntech too. Similar to the Arina, it offers terrific output, proper dimming, multi-source shadows, horrifying physical size/weight, and iffy colour quality. It seemingly needs -green on at all times - which puts it out of the running for me.
 
Have you looked at the Hive Wasp par? You can gang 2 heads together to one balast on a stand which would give you similar output to a 1.2K HMI. They are almost double the efficiency of HMI and give a nice quality single source like an HMi. The bulbs are pretty much one for life and look very robust with no filament. With the Wasp par you can add on a source4 barrel to turn it into an ellipsoidal light.

Compared to LED I'd miss the ability to dim and the Hive case is kinda odd but tough as nails.
 
Grug said:
The other option is the Nila Arina, which can match a 2.5kw HMI for output with only 800w draw, but will have the usual LED multi-source shadows, and I've yet to find any clear data on TLCI or CRI for it.
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I can speak for the Nila's Arina's. I have 2 Daylight 2 Daylight units and I can definitely say they are HEAVY. 2 grips are required to mount them on a stand safely. But we have a nila DMX to control all the lights and that does make it convenient so you dont have to keep climbing stands to dim them. Here are two of the running off a single 20amp circuit through a silk to emulate daylight.

IMG_20151016_100735.jpg

They are not cheap and if you go this route rental would be the best option unless you will use them regularly.
 
emretufekci said:
I can speak for the Nila's Arina's. I have 2 Daylight 2 Daylight units and I can definitely say they are HEAVY. 2 grips are required to mount them on a stand safely. But we have a nila DMX to control all the lights and that does make it convenient so you dont have to keep climbing stands to dim them. Here are two of the running off a single 20amp circuit through a silk to emulate daylight.

View attachment 111729

They are not cheap and if you go this route rental would be the best option unless you will use them regularly.
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How's the colour quality Emre? Do you have any grabs from footage lit with the Arinas that you could share? (preferably showing how the light plays on skintones)
 
Sure, actually what I can do is give you guys a grab from a Sekonic 700R and post the corresponding images to them. I'll also post some images with camera settings using the Arinas. It will just have to be tomorrow as it is getting late here :)
 
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