Suggestions for good portable mixer...

M

matthewd5

Veteran
Hello.

i am looking to buy a mixer.

my only experience in the past was with a shure FP31

i am looking at the sound design 302 and the wendt x2 or x3

i have had great luck just running mic's into the camera, my only complaint is the display for the audio isn't all that great and the volume controls go from way too quiet to way too loud too easily.

so i'm mostly getting a mixer for better control over the volume range.

i'm really looking forward to having a better display so i can monitor the audio more easily.

does anyone have any first hand recommendations on a decent portable mixer in the $1,000 +/- range?

looking to make an investment in something thats going to hold up well and be around for a long time.

matthew
 
302 ...my dream-mixer... next year... *sigh*:cry:


It does everything a mixer can do and the specs are off the chart. A Shure FP33 was considered silent for years... and the SD 302 is 26 db quieter. It's 3-channels of perfection in an ergonomically perfect form.
 
MattinSTL said:
302 ...my dream-mixer... next year... *sigh*:cry:


It does everything a mixer can do and the specs are off the chart. A Shure FP33 was considered silent for years... and the SD 302 is 26 db quieter. It's 3-channels of perfection in an ergonomically perfect form.
Click to expand...


I am thinking about pickin one up this week. Anyway, one of the guys at that the local sound shop told me that it is better to use a cheap mic if you are plugging straight into your camera rather than use a mic like a MKH60. He said if I use a really good mic I need to use a mixer to realize the sound quality of a good mic.

Matt, do you feel the same way? Do you feel that if you plugged a Schoeps or a good Sennheiser into a 302 it would sound noticably better than if you just plugged it straight into the DVX?
 
Gregg said:
Matt, do you feel the same way? Do you feel that if you plugged a Schoeps or a good Sennheiser into a 302 it would sound noticably better than if you just plugged it straight into the DVX?
Click to expand...

Here is the test one user here ran to compare recording sound straight into DVX vs using external pre-amp/recorder. Obviously, you'd get better results by using a good mixer...
However, the question should be: is the difference between a high-end mic and something cheaper noticeable if you plug 'em straight into DVX? And I'll tell you it is. DVX sound system is good enough to preserve the quality you gain by investing in an expensive mic. But you can get even better results by using at least a good external pre-amp.
 
Yeah I think a better mic is always a better mic and you don't need additional gear to hear major improvements... but I do agree you need additional gear to hear the full potential. Follow me? I don't think you'll ever find me encouraging people to NOT spend cash for better gear... even though you may find me showing somebody who CAN'T spend the additional cash a way to get the best result for his/her budget.

In those tests (link above) you need to realize that BY FAR the biggest improvement was in the RECORDER and not the mixer. The first bite in the tigeba clip is the seperate recorder... second is the dvx straight in... third is dvx fed via line-in. You can hear that by far the biggest improvement is on the seperate recorder.

The mixer makes a significant difference in a lot of ways and I think they're eventually a necessity for anybody that's getting serious about sound... coming from me that's saying something. If you check the archives a year ago I'm sure you can find me saying that a mixer ISN'T necessary to improve your sound but I was WRONG.

The mixer gives you control... as well as a super-clean pre... plus monitoring... but mainly it's the CONTROL and the ability to get more then one mic working per channel.

Since we all know that it's PROXIMITY that accomplishes the first 90% of great sound (meaning the closest mic usually sounds best) then you see how a mixer can allow you to mic two or more seperate sources properly rather then trying to cover multiple sources through one mic.

Even running a mixer line-in to the DVX gives a reasonable improvement... but if you want to really get clean sound you'll eventually have to consider a recorder. The new Tascam looks like it could be good, but I gotta' say that I'm LOVING my marantz 671... I never leave home without it! I may still get an M-Audio MicroTrack ($349) just because I'm so excited about being able to capture a great sound when I hear it.

If you want to hear the improvement from mic>dvx... then mic>mixpre>dvx... then mic>671... then mic>mixpre>671 then click HERE

I have smaller files posted as wma files, but they sound like sh*t... and I need to replace all those files with mp3... there's an odd distortion artifact that's easily heard in my wma files and for some reason mp3 doesn't do that... and obviously WAVE files don't have distortion either... so the link there is a wav.
 
Hey Gregg... don't be afraid to say "Coffey Sound" instead of the guys at "the local shop"... I don't think anybody's going to be bothered if you relay your positive experiences with those guys. That first post thing was just a fluke... so just talk naturally.

Oh and as I'm sure you guys can tell I don't think ANYBODY is gonna' point you to any other mixer besides the SD 302.
 
Well, there is the Wendt X3, but I think it's a little noisy for the money.

You know what? I just recently ordered a Rolls MX422 for a customer, which sells for somewhere around $450. I just dismissed it as a noisy, low cost, p.o.s. just because of the price point, but then I got curious and decided to listen to it. I was pleasantly surprised at how quiet this mixer really is. Better than an FP33.

-Dave
 
i started out with the me-66 and then i shot a short where someone loaned the director an mhk-60 and i loved the way it sounded so i got the 416 and there really is a noticable difference between the 66 and the 416.

the main reason i'm getting a mixer is for the display, i hate the display on the dvx and i hate the control wheel. the wheels are a joke for adjusting the volume.

that is the only thing that i really wish they would change on the camera.

i mean there are some features i would really like to see added but the only real gripe after using both of mine for hundreds of hours is the volume adjustment wheels.

i'll probably go with the 302. it looks like a nice solid design and the led display looks like it will be a joy to work with.

i even found a kata bag that looks to be better designed than the porta brace bag that came with my shure mixer.

matthew
 
I may still get an M-Audio MicroTrack ($349) just because I'm so excited about being able to capture a great sound when I hear it.
.................................................................................................

is this unit good for a stand alone recorder? like in lieu of the marantz 671?
 
brianluce said:
I may still get an M-Audio MicroTrack ($349) just because I'm so excited about being able to capture a great sound when I hear it.
.................................................................................................

is this unit good for a stand alone recorder? like in lieu of the marantz 671?
Click to expand...

I don't know Brian... somebody that's bought one needs to answer that for you. If I get one it will ONLY be to throw in a jacket pocket and be ready for something... I'd never get one intending to use it as a sub to the 671.

And man you guys who are about to get a 302 for the meters and controls have NO idea what a luxury ride you're about to get. Those meters can be easily set to tell you ANYTHING about what's going on with the recorded sound. Don't be fooled by the simple curved row of LEDS... they do a lot more then just light up with signal. Boy am I jealous.:thumbsup:
 
i'm ready to order it tomorrow but evs doesn't seem to carry the brand and b&h is closed for another week.

that other company has it but they don't seem to carry any of the bags.

i'm going to call them tomorrow and see if they might carry bags but not have them on their site.

i read the manual and the optional stuff you can do with the led's is great.

its almost to the point they should have a cable to connect it to a computer and use a web browser to configure it!

matthew
 
And man you guys who are about to get a 302 for the meters and controls have NO idea what a luxury ride you're about to get.
...............

You said it boosted your pick up on your mic right? that you didn't have to be as close to your subjects face?
disregarding the fact that it'll improve audio quality, the above point alone seems worth the purchase price.
 
It's just a cleaner signal path... by a tremendous margin... and the impedence match (plus some other things) results in a much better sound.

Forget the crap I said in that other thread... didn't I edit that out? A pre-amp can gain the hell out of any mic to the point that you can hear a pin drop from across the room... but it will NOT change the pattern of the mic or eliminate unwanted sounds from being recorded.

All it does is put your mics on steroids and then give you everything you need to control them... plus it allows you to use several mics where you previously could only use one.

If you only have one mic then you probably don't need a mixer JUST yet... even though the control and monitoring options are worth it alone... and again cash is relative... so even if you had only ONE mic and could afford it I'd say get the 302 just so you're ready... and then get another mic or two asap.:grin:
 
what volume setting on the dvx do most people use when they have a mixer connected?

do you put the volume wheels in the midpoint setting?

and even with the worlds best mixer it still goes through the dvx electronics so if the dvx were noisy wouldn't you still get that noise added to the soundpath?

matthew
 
And even with the worlds best mixer it still goes through the dvx electronics so if the dvx were noisy wouldn't you still get that noise added to the soundpath?
Click to expand...

By going thru the mixer, you provide a LINE signal to the DVX. You use the much better(e.g., quieter) pre-amps of the mixer, rather than the built in pre-amps of the DVX.

You could further improve things by going to an external recorder, especially one that recorded in a higher quality (more bits, higher sampling rate) than DV standard.
 
matthewd5 said:
...and even with the worlds best mixer it still goes through the dvx electronics so if the dvx were noisy wouldn't you still get that noise added to the soundpath?

matthew
Click to expand...

I guess it depends on your definition of "noisy"... I'm an odd-man-out on the dvx 'cause I think it sounds good AND it can be improved significantly. It just depends on what you're shooting and how good the audio needs to be.

You can split the signal at the mixer and run wired or wireless to the DVX and run the other split to a recorder. That's my new setup. I went this route to quell my desires for perfect wireless booming. This gets you guide-track and perfect sound... just dump the guide when you import the audio.

I won't do this every time 'cause it is more post work and the DVX is capable of reasonably decent audio. So when it's not crucial I'll just use the mixer and feed the cam line-in... and if it's less crucial then that and I'm only using one mic in a fixed position I may even just run it mic-in with no mixer. If I'm on a paid gig or something important then I'll go full monte.

Even the mixer alone will improve your audio in several ways... plus give you control over one or several mics... but adding a recorder to the equation almost guarantees perfection. (baring user-error)

It's all about options and control my friend... and I'm of the opinion that you can never have too much of either.
 
xort said:
Dave
How would you rate the Rolls MX442 vs. the PSC Promix 3?
Similar pricing.
Click to expand...


Mmmmm. tough call. Depends on how you like your mixer set up. The Rolls has the inputs on the back of the mixer. It comes with a bag, so it's a non-issue as far as the bag getting in the way is concerned, but if you don't like that, then it may not be for you. If it doesn't bother you, then it might be a really nice choice. Some people don't like the meters on it. If you get a chance to look at one up close, you should.

-Dave
 
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