Studio Monitors

saneproductions

saneproductions

Veteran
Hi,

I just got Jay Rose's book "Audio Postproduction for Digital Video" and so I am looking for new monitors. Any suggestions? I have thought of the Genelec 8020a ($800) or the blue sky media desk ($500). I don't know what to do. My editing room is not a great acoustic space (it is an apartment, so modification is going to be very minor). I know this is not ideal. Right now I am using krk rp5s.
 
Mike...just a vote for KRK Rockit5s ...

$150 ea through Musician's friend. A huge improvement for me from 7506 headphones and cheaper studio monitors. I love them.
 
You think I should keep them? Huh, I was thinking I need to upgrade. This book says that you need to spend the $$$ on the monitors as they last 15 years and are the most important part.
 
Well, Mike...you know as well as I that if you have the ching to spend, there is always better. But the KRKs have gotten great reviews and at that price point (for you - paid off!) how can you beat it?

I'd love a pair of $1000 per monitor monitors, but I'm not exactly in that poisiton :)
 
saneproductions said:
You think I should keep them? Huh, I was thinking I need to upgrade. This book says that you need to spend the $$$ on the monitors as they last 15 years and are the most important part.
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I'm sure those are not bad. I hate to say this but many times, it is the environment you're in that's the problem. I remember my first sound studio I setup in an apartment. My mixes kept coming out muddy sounding. Next place I lived in it was better but same equipment just a different environment. Personally, I don't think carpet is a good idea in a sound studio--other than a well placed throw rug here or there. Carpet tends to deaden too much and you end up boosting frequencies you shouldn't be boosting. Look at most cutting edge control rooms, they have wooden plank floors. They may have the obligatory throw run somewhere too. How do they get away with this? Because they have diffusion on the ceiling to break up the reflections between floor and ceiling. Carpet's not an efficient way to do that.

Also, your walls are not setup as a control or tracking room probably. All the walls face each other and are reflectors of sound right now--reflection in a way you DO NOT want. Sound foam, surfaces offset from each other, diffusion, etc. All this contributes to good sound.

When I lived in that apartment, a lot of times, I ended up burning a CD and taking it out to my car to listen to the result and I got to where I knew how to pretty well correct the mix for the problems I had in my listening environment. It's just a fact of sound recording life.
 
Can't speak to the blue sky but you can't go wrong with Genelecs. Mackie 824 or 624 are also excellent but have a large footprint if you are using in small space.

For a small studio I would favor the 8020's. There is a place in Vancouver you can audition them...forget the name right now.

(The sickness continues, huh Mike? :) )
 
I have some M-Audio StudioPro 3 monitors. They're very cheap and definately not the best but check out this mix, http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=636970&songID=4931433

That's probably my best mix and if you hear my first mixes, you might want to shoot your head off. My point is that you don't need to invest so much on monitors to get a good mix. Develop the skill and then as you get better you get this sixth sense that you need better monitors. I'm at that point right now.
 
Well, I have a very less than ideal setup in a dining room of a turn of the century apartment building. The floor is linolium and the space is small. I think adding a throw rug (should have specified) about the size of my corner will help things. Right now I am flat up against a wall, so I plan to turn and span a corner. I hope to add a few panels for reflections. I am reading about all of this in Jay's book.. He really stresses the monitors and says that most video producers don't spend enough on them (which is what I did). I can probably get about $200 in trade for my KRKs from a friend I rent a recording space from (V/O booth and large diaphram condenser). Jay Rose doesn't give specific advice about brands/models but seems not to like 2.1 systems (that may be different now). I know that genelec makes great stuff. It seems like I will need to add the sub on top of the 8020s and I know the matching genelec is $$$. The other thing about the blue sky is the ability to add 3 more speakers in the future (when I have a room) to get 5.1. I realize that I should just concentrate on stereo mix for now, but I will not always be in the kitchen (as it were).

I didn't get the shotgun yet wabbit, don't worry. I am having a hard time prioritizing where to spend.
 
I need to point out that I do documentary style A/B roll editing and I am most in need of mixing levels between interviews/music/broll with the occasional nat sound break thrown in. I am getting better the last few years, but it still seems off at times. I am really starting to hear the differnce in these mics and rooms.

You can see samples on my site.

I am excited to hit trew in vancouver!!
 
saneproductions said:
I am excited to hit trew in vancouver!!
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Well, I will be sure to warn him to wear a cup then. :D

Sounds like you need to work on your studio. Obviously you don't have to build a $30,000 studio but some simple and effective treatment will go a long way towards improving your mix.

Cheers
 
Hey Sane--

I worked as a recording engineer for a few years before making the switch to more video-oriented stuff, so I'm sorta backwards, as far as over-emphasizing the audio instead of the video. My thoughts:

Yes, monitors will last a long time, and thus they're a great investment in that they don't quite depreciate like other things. At the sort of price point you're talking about, I like the Mackie 624's. They're nice also b/c Mackie does make a sweet package with a matched sub... and if you wanted to upgrade in the future you could add a sub and switch to the 824's, and could start using teh 624's as your surround channels. Genelec certainly makes some fantastic stuff, but in that lower price point I think Mackie has the leg-up.

All that said, your room is MUCH more important to the sound than the difference between any of the $800 monitors on the market. If you can do anything to make your room sound a little better, it will do a lot more good than stressing over which monitor to buy. Your existing monitors in a nice-sounding space will sound FAR FAR FAR better than the top-of-the-line Genelecs in a raquetball court (OK that's a heavy-handed analogy, but you get the point). Bookshelves make decent poor-man's diffusors for behind your mix position. Although a lot of carpeting in your room can make things sound dead, it's a bit of a lesser-of-two-evils scenario. In a small square room with drywall and hardwood on all sides, I'd pick the deadness of carpet. There are of course a ton of companies out there that specialize in these sorts of room treatments. They usually charge far too much. Some ingenuity and reading (understanding of the acoustical concepts involved) can get you a lot of the way there w/o spending money for purpose-built acoustical treatments by over-priced companies. Just make sure things are fire-retardant. Bad acoustics is one thing; burning your apartment building down is another thing altogether.

Then of course the other thing you can do is get GREAT headphones. Although they're not an ideal monitoring environment, in that most of your end-linsteners aren't listening on headphones, they can be incredibly useful, particularly in less-than-ideal rooms. I'm a massive fan of Sennheiser's audiophile line of open headphones. Aside from sounding great, you can really wear them all day long b/c they're so damn comfortable, and because of their open design. If you get a chance to go somewhere with some of these Sennheisers, try them out. Feeling them and hearing them for yourself is a far better endorsement than I could ever give.

http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/icm_eng.nsf/root/04465

(I have the 600s... I can't vouch for the others.)

Cheers,
Kevin
 
The bookshelf behind your monitoring position is one of the easiest solutions to get going and most often-talked about on the web. And most people have bookshelves--so just move yours to the correct position. The next step, when you can afford it is some kind of sound treatment on the wall in front of you and behind the speakers. Diffusion behind, a bit of deadening in front.
 
Okay, I will plan on treating the room as much as my wife will let me. I have that book with all of the tips about acoustics and wall treatments. I will see how much I can do.

Thanks for the replies
 
I do have Beyerdynamic DT770s cans I use for field production and to hear any big problems. I do not do a mix on them though. I use the monitors for that, then export, listen on a tv with my home theater speakers and computer speakers then call it good. As I said, what I am doing is really simple.
 
saneproductions said:
Hi,

I just got Jay Rose's book "Audio Postproduction for Digital Video" and so I am looking for new monitors. Any suggestions? I have thought of the Genelec 8020a ($800) or the blue sky media desk ($500). I don't know what to do. My editing room is not a great acoustic space (it is an apartment, so modification is going to be very minor). I know this is not ideal. Right now I am using krk rp5s.
Click to expand...

Genelecs are great. :thumbsup: I use 'em (a matched set of 5 & a sub) for 5.1 monitoring along w/ a stereo pair of Adams and Auratones.

Deaden the room w/ any acoustic foam you can afford, especially the front wall where the speakers will be. Use panels (2'X4' sheets of plywood covered with foam or fabrick) accross the front L & R corners to knock out the bass node that builds up in those 45º corners. For the back walls use diffusion - book racks, shelves w/ books, hang a coupla self made frames with lattice in the middle.

Paint.
 
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I have a pair of the Behringer 2031a Truth (matched) monitors and they have been very very good. Even my audiophilaholic brother complemented them (rare). They have enough grunt to fill a room and yet sound good at low volume...don't get the smaller 2030 models. Behringer has a somewhat spotty record, but these have been a bargain at $335. I have a small mackie mixer for management. For a small system, this has been a good setup.
 
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