Studio/Field Monitors?
- Thread starter IBEJohnson
- Start date
IBEJohnson
Well-known member
gco said:
I could only assume that the picture I was seeing was accurate. I went through the process of calibrating the monitor ahead of time and was able to obtain the results I felt were correct, so once I threw an image up there I took it as gospel. I'm afraid the only way to tell if it falls short in this category is to compare it side-by-side with a monitor that sports true SMPTE phosphors. Otherwise it's all speculation.
I can say this, however... While I was shopping, I found myself caught up in every last detail, including the phosphors. Of course we all want everything for next to nothing, but since this is not possible we are forced to make certain compromises. In my case, I compromised not having the portability of a 9" monitor and the potential use of battery power for something with higher resolution that will be easier to see in the editing room. In addition, I compromised on the phosphors probably mostly for cost. In the end, the phosphors don't seem like much of a compromise at all. This monitor is leaps and bounds above a standard CRT or LCD computer monitor or TV. I believe the more relevant issue is the issue of portability. For me, the jury is still out. I can honestly say that I never found myself completely bothered ny its relative lack of mobility, but I surely would have gotten more use out of it.
Its also fair to note how expensive those Anton Bauer batteries are that power those 9" monitors. A small 1.5 hour used package at B&H will run you an additional $350. And if you want the batteries to last longer you can spend as much as $1500. That's a lot of money. With that in mind, I feel much more justified in considering a 15' LCD TV for field use, while my JVC sits in my editing room. Once I try that experiment out, I'll report back.
snodart
Veteran
Great thread.
I have been searching for a decent SMPTE-C CRT monitor and haven't had much luck in figuring out which one to get or more importantly... from where.
Do I have this right? If the monitor has.. say 750 vertical lines of resolution and RGB/component, then I should be seeing 720 lines of resolution when shooting at 720p and 750 lines when shooting 1080.
I am surprised that there isn't more talk of using SMPTE-C CRT monitors in the field and for post work. All of the "good" LCD's seem to have color problems.
My 7" Marshall in way orange, no matter how many times I calibrate it. I still love the little guy for focusing though.
The Panasonic BT-LH1700W seems to favor various shades of green:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=84807&highlight=PANASONIC+BT-LH1700W
I am gearing up for a short that I will be shooting in the next 8 months or so (HVX + 35mm adapter). I am planning on using my 7" Marshall at the camera to check focus and for framing.... and then a 12" (+ or -) SMPTE-C CRT as the director's monitor (and for checking color, brightness, etc). The CRT would double as a color correction monitor for post work as well.
Why do I get the feeling that people think I am crazy for wanting to use a CRT ?!
I have been searching for a decent SMPTE-C CRT monitor and haven't had much luck in figuring out which one to get or more importantly... from where.
Do I have this right? If the monitor has.. say 750 vertical lines of resolution and RGB/component, then I should be seeing 720 lines of resolution when shooting at 720p and 750 lines when shooting 1080.
I am surprised that there isn't more talk of using SMPTE-C CRT monitors in the field and for post work. All of the "good" LCD's seem to have color problems.
My 7" Marshall in way orange, no matter how many times I calibrate it. I still love the little guy for focusing though.
The Panasonic BT-LH1700W seems to favor various shades of green:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=84807&highlight=PANASONIC+BT-LH1700W
I am gearing up for a short that I will be shooting in the next 8 months or so (HVX + 35mm adapter). I am planning on using my 7" Marshall at the camera to check focus and for framing.... and then a 12" (+ or -) SMPTE-C CRT as the director's monitor (and for checking color, brightness, etc). The CRT would double as a color correction monitor for post work as well.
Why do I get the feeling that people think I am crazy for wanting to use a CRT ?!
gco
Veteran
Sounds to me like the the issue with high resolution CRTs in the field is portability. Anything small has lousy resolution; like 300 lines. I'm new to all this so cant speak from experience only what i read in these forums. As far as SMPTE-C phosphors go, thats definitely the recommendation for critical color work problem for me is the price. Cant find anything under 1500. Looks like i'll have to settle for the P-22 phosphors for cost reasons. Given my budget, my priorities are blue gun and underscan. Would look forward to what more IBEJohnson has to say about his new JVC. He's using it for both location and editing.
Good to know about the color issues with the Panasonic and Marshall LCDs. Using a CRT on site and for editing sounds practical but then again lugging that 35+ lb beast around might get old real quick. Will have to find out.
Good to know about the color issues with the Panasonic and Marshall LCDs. Using a CRT on site and for editing sounds practical but then again lugging that 35+ lb beast around might get old real quick. Will have to find out.
imageone - how do you like the 9"? I've been thinking about getting either that or the 14" for editing. Currently using a TVI just dont have the budget to go big at home.
A calibrated CRT TV has much better color accuracy than LCD HDTVs. I use a calibrated CRT TV to check colors and a 720p HDTV LCD to check resolution/noise issues in my studio. I can't justify 3 or 4 Grand for a monitor. With my editing software, Canopus Edius v4, I always check the vector scope to be within NTSC specs.
...Angelo
IBEJohnson
Well-known member
Guys,
Sorry I've been so inactive. gco, I especially owe you an apology for never replying to your PM. I had a baby last week, so my mind has been all over the place for quite some time.
About the JVC... we love it. Yeah, it's a little bulky. It's definitely no LCD, but it is small enough to move almost anywhere, so if you're willing to deal with it, you can make it work. We shot our film in an A-frame cabin which had an open loft overlooking the living room. Since 95% of the interiors took place in either the living room or the adjacent kitchen, we simply stationed the director and the monitor in the upstairs loft. Attaching the monitor to the camera was a 50-foot S-Video cable (until Day 2 when I, errr 'someone', broke one of the pins and we had to revert to a coax with RCA connectors). Yes, wrangling the cable was a bit of a task, especially because most of our shots were long hand-held takes. On the days where we had extra crew, it wasn't a problem, but when I was forced to man the camera and wrangle cable, it was a bit of a pain. The other thing I like about this particular monitor is the flexibility of using it in car scenes. I guess you could say that about any monitor, but when filming in an SUV, it is easy to stick the director and the monitor in the cargo area. Of course it does not accept batteries, but who needs them when you can go to Amazon.com and buy a 800W power inverter for $35. If the SUV you're shooting in has a cig lighter in the back, you have enough power for the monitor and your favorite 500W lamp. Of course, you have fan noise to deal with, but that's another story.
In regard to post-production, the JVC is completely adequate. I think I came to the same conclusion as most others; SMPTE-C is the best option, but at my price range, P-22 was the only option. I could not tell you the difference between the two. I haven't nearly enough experience in this arena to be much of an authority other than my experience with this specific monitor.
Justin, if you are using it for HD, I'm not sure you can even do that. How would you connect it? Maybe you weren't specifically thinking about the JVC I bought, but something similar. I can't be much help to you, honestly. I like your ideas about using a CRT, but I'm not sure what it would take to make it work for you. As a side note, if you are shooting a film, I wanna help. I normally write, direct or produce my own stuff, but I like your work (as I've expressed to you before on other threads) and I have yet to use this site to actually meet fellow filmmakers. So, even if you need an extra C-stand, I'm 6'3" and I can extend to approx 9' at my fullest reach. I come complete with two arms and two 5-finger grip heads. My only downfall is that I tend to eat more than the average C-Stand. :thumbsup: Lemme know...
Eric
Sorry I've been so inactive. gco, I especially owe you an apology for never replying to your PM. I had a baby last week, so my mind has been all over the place for quite some time.
About the JVC... we love it. Yeah, it's a little bulky. It's definitely no LCD, but it is small enough to move almost anywhere, so if you're willing to deal with it, you can make it work. We shot our film in an A-frame cabin which had an open loft overlooking the living room. Since 95% of the interiors took place in either the living room or the adjacent kitchen, we simply stationed the director and the monitor in the upstairs loft. Attaching the monitor to the camera was a 50-foot S-Video cable (until Day 2 when I, errr 'someone', broke one of the pins and we had to revert to a coax with RCA connectors). Yes, wrangling the cable was a bit of a task, especially because most of our shots were long hand-held takes. On the days where we had extra crew, it wasn't a problem, but when I was forced to man the camera and wrangle cable, it was a bit of a pain. The other thing I like about this particular monitor is the flexibility of using it in car scenes. I guess you could say that about any monitor, but when filming in an SUV, it is easy to stick the director and the monitor in the cargo area. Of course it does not accept batteries, but who needs them when you can go to Amazon.com and buy a 800W power inverter for $35. If the SUV you're shooting in has a cig lighter in the back, you have enough power for the monitor and your favorite 500W lamp. Of course, you have fan noise to deal with, but that's another story.
In regard to post-production, the JVC is completely adequate. I think I came to the same conclusion as most others; SMPTE-C is the best option, but at my price range, P-22 was the only option. I could not tell you the difference between the two. I haven't nearly enough experience in this arena to be much of an authority other than my experience with this specific monitor.
Justin, if you are using it for HD, I'm not sure you can even do that. How would you connect it? Maybe you weren't specifically thinking about the JVC I bought, but something similar. I can't be much help to you, honestly. I like your ideas about using a CRT, but I'm not sure what it would take to make it work for you. As a side note, if you are shooting a film, I wanna help. I normally write, direct or produce my own stuff, but I like your work (as I've expressed to you before on other threads) and I have yet to use this site to actually meet fellow filmmakers. So, even if you need an extra C-stand, I'm 6'3" and I can extend to approx 9' at my fullest reach. I come complete with two arms and two 5-finger grip heads. My only downfall is that I tend to eat more than the average C-Stand. :thumbsup: Lemme know...
Eric
gco
Veteran
Great to read your feedback IBE...
Thanks for the response.
Oh and BTW--Congratulations!!
Edit: I was so busy digging in to your response, the apology part didnt register. (at least the baby did)
No apologies necessary whatsoever. Your feedback and that from everyone else on this thread have helped me tremendously. Given my budget, I'm fairly confident its the best bang for the buck and I'm going for it. Even though its not quite industry standard, its bound to be an improvement.
Many thanks again!
Thanks for the response.
Oh and BTW--Congratulations!!
Edit: I was so busy digging in to your response, the apology part didnt register. (at least the baby did)
No apologies necessary whatsoever. Your feedback and that from everyone else on this thread have helped me tremendously. Given my budget, I'm fairly confident its the best bang for the buck and I'm going for it. Even though its not quite industry standard, its bound to be an improvement.
Many thanks again!
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snodart
Veteran
Hey, I didn't get an email saying that there were new posts for this thread. :undecided
Anyway, thanks for the new input all.
As far as hooking the HVX to something like the JVC , they both have component connections (JVC need the IF-CO1COMG option though), so that shouldn't be a problem. Component can pass up to 1080i/p as far as I know. Since the JVC has 750 lines of resolution, if I was shooting 720p, I should be getting just about full res (minus the resolution taken up by the black bars for 16 X 9). Shooting 1080, I should be getting 750 vertical lines of resolution at the JVC (again minus the resolution taken up by the black bars for 16 X 9). This is all speculation of course, so somebody speak up if I am crazy.
I'm a believer in using an accurate monitor in the field and for post. Waveform and such is useful (especially for those doing TV work), but I like to see exactly what it should look like. As for the P-22, who knows.... I guess the only way to tell if there really is a difference is by putting a P-22 monitor next to a SMPTE-C monitor.
Sure is hard to find any SMPTE-C monitors around... I found a few widescreen SMPTE-C CRTs that were around $11,000. Yikes. Makes the JVC look very nice :thumbsup:
EDIT: Oh yea, congrats on the baby! Thanks for the nice words also. I may very well take you up on the offer!
Anyway, thanks for the new input all.
As far as hooking the HVX to something like the JVC , they both have component connections (JVC need the IF-CO1COMG option though), so that shouldn't be a problem. Component can pass up to 1080i/p as far as I know. Since the JVC has 750 lines of resolution, if I was shooting 720p, I should be getting just about full res (minus the resolution taken up by the black bars for 16 X 9). Shooting 1080, I should be getting 750 vertical lines of resolution at the JVC (again minus the resolution taken up by the black bars for 16 X 9). This is all speculation of course, so somebody speak up if I am crazy.
I'm a believer in using an accurate monitor in the field and for post. Waveform and such is useful (especially for those doing TV work), but I like to see exactly what it should look like. As for the P-22, who knows.... I guess the only way to tell if there really is a difference is by putting a P-22 monitor next to a SMPTE-C monitor.
Sure is hard to find any SMPTE-C monitors around... I found a few widescreen SMPTE-C CRTs that were around $11,000. Yikes. Makes the JVC look very nice :thumbsup:
EDIT: Oh yea, congrats on the baby! Thanks for the nice words also. I may very well take you up on the offer!
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