Strobing/choppy playback on 24pA explained (?)

Note: I'm editing with FCP HD.

I responded to a topic a little while back called "24pA stinks", and back then I was in agreement--the majority of the processed footage looked jittery and relatively low-res. No procedure for getting true 24p playback or 3:2 pulldown re-insertion seemed to work; the image looked just as bad played back from a DVD on a TV screen.
Then Barry's book came in the mail, and I learned something new about shooting on a film-like basis: the speed at which you should pan or move the camera. I didn't know about the seven-second rule, and I most certainly didn't know about the individual guides that were in the book. So, Barry--a profound thank you. The book and DVD have been invaluable thus far.
So now about 50-60% of the jitteryness has been explained; all I needed to do was count how long it took for a certain object to pass by from left to right, or right to left, or whatever.
But there's still the other 40% or so that has problems on a static or very slowly moving angle, with very little to moderate movement in the frame at all. I think a better way to identify this--other than strobing or choppiness--would be the presence of split frames. Barry hinted at the idea that Apple may not have documented the pulldown-removal process in FCP very well. So my basic question is: After you do pulldown removal and place the clip in a 23.98 sequence, is there still supposed to be an intermediate split frame there (as in: A, B, BC, C, D)? Because now that I've taken a closer look at it, a lot of the clips don't look markedly different after pulldown removal than they did before. I thought that it might be a case where the capture process failed to remove the pulldown, but on some of the clips, I tried selecting the option for it under 'Tools' and it said there was no pulldown to remove. It also identified the sequence as running at 23.98. But there's still the split frame. Is this supposed to be the case? If it is, cool. If not--hey, I'll dive into the timeline and manually erase each split frame, if that's what it takes.

Oh, one other thing. I've pretty much been alternating between shutter speeds of 1/24 and 1/48 so far; I know that projectors in theaters use a shutter speed of 1/48 to display film on the screen, but using this speed on 24p or 24pA footage sometimes seems to be asking for trouble; because the frame is sharper and contains less motion blur, it's easier to induce strobing. On a shoot where the majority of mobile shots are going to be done handheld as opposed to a dolly or camera boom, would it be better to use the 1/24 shutter speed? The frame isn't as refined, but it shows next to no strobing--and it still looked like film (that was the one part of the DVD that I didn't totally agree with). So I figure that since I've opened back up to doing 24pA (which means I don't have to reshoot everything thus far, thank God), is shooting at 1/24 a disadvantage over 1/48 for a film-out or a 24p DVD? I figure that if it ends up going to a film out, the projector's going to play it at 1/48 shutter speed anyway. Would this be a good idea, bad idea...?

Oh, BTW, Barry...you've now ensured that I'm going to raise $10,000 for the Mini35 as soon as I possibly can. That was the first footage I'd ever seen of the DVX with the attachment on it; I knew it preserved a 35mm DOF, but I had no idea that it would look that incredibly good.
 
Re: Strobing/choppy playback on 24pA explained (?)

Split frame- Are you seeing this stepping through frame by frame or on playback?
If you're looking at playback you have to output to a real video monitor to check. A computer monitor isn't synced to the rate of video and can show signs of 'tearing' where one frame is being updated and you see top half of one frame and bottom of another frame.
Interlacing will appear as every other line being from another frame.
If you've set it up correctly and using the right process FCP will remove the pulldown so frame by frame you shouldn't see interlacing.
 
Re: Strobing/choppy playback on 24pA explained (?)

[quote author=Scottdvx100 link=board=FCP;num=1106389442;start=0#1 date=01/22/05 at 23:05:58]Split frame- Are you seeing this stepping through frame by frame or on playback?
If you're looking at playback you have to output to a real video monitor to check.  A computer monitor isn't synced to the rate of video and can show signs of 'tearing' where one frame is being updated and you see top half of one frame and bottom of another frame.
Interlacing will appear as every other line being from another frame.
If you've set it up correctly and using the right process FCP will remove the pulldown so frame by frame you shouldn't see interlacing.
[/quote]

I've seen it on both frame-by-frame and playback. Referring back to what I said in the original post, the BC frame is still there even after pulldown. On Adam Wilt's 24p page, he actually gives a visual rep of what the image should be like after pulldown removal on 24pA...frames A, B, C, and D. On the footage I'm editing, it's still reading as A-B-BC-C-D. I'm pretty sure that the fact that the split frame was still there contributed to the illusion of choppiness/strobing even where there wasn't normally any.

As far as the monitor vs. computer screen, I've done more than just hook it up to an NTSC monitor to see what it looks like. Early on, when it first started happening, I printed a sequence to tape in addition to burning a DVD to see what it looked like on a TV screen. The tape is pretty much irrelevant, because you need a very fast computer in order to add a 3:2 pulldown reinsertion back onto a tape, and I don't have a very fast computer. But even the DVD copy had split frames on it, and the TV is where you really notice it. This was also a 24p DVD, so it would at least partially explain why it looks bad on TV playback.
 
I'm such a goober. Sheesh.

I'm such a goober. Sheesh.

Well, chalk one up for El Beginnero.

I still have to reshoot some handheld shots where the camera was moving all over the place; the OIS happened to be on for those, and I think that probably had a hand in it. But I digress...

Doing the pulldown removal with the right speed of camera movement and the right motion in frame produced the right image, and the only thing it really suffered from was the sometimes over-sharp image that you see from a lot of first-generation, non-anamorphic DVDs, and the tendency for small objects. And whenever I had bumped it up to the anamorphic setting, I got choppy movement that gave the look of a lower framerate, more strobing, pixels, tearing, et cetera. It was really only noticeably present in one shot, and nothing I did seemed to correct it. Guess why?

The DV anamorphic setting defaults to 29.97 frames per second. I hadn't bothered to correct it, so I was capturing with pulldown removal and crunching a 24fps file into a 30fps timeline. I corrected the sequence setting--to 23.98--blew up the image by 33%, and the movement was flawless. Didn't matter what it was--handheld, fast pan, slow pan, static with image within it--the image moved like film, and it looked so much better than F5, it was ridiculous. Then the image that had always moved erroneously came up--the real test. Again, flawless movement, but this was still on a computer monitor. So I burned a DVD and played it on an NTSC TV. Still flawless. Nearly no stepped edges, no compression artifacts that I could see. I can actually see this footage being projected onto a 40-foot screen and looking good.

So--yeah. Someone hit me. Weeks of trying progressively whacked-out methods to try and correct footage that was done on a tripod with little movement, and the flaw was, as it usually is, thunderingly simple. Bleh.

Some of the images suffered after the pulldown even in a standard NTSC 23.98 sequence, but I attribute that to unsteady camera movement and the OIS being on. Those are easily fixable, though. It's good enough to know that the properly-shot footage (and there's a few hours of it) performs as it should, and won't need to be reshot on principal. Thank God.
 
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