I noticed you jumped into this discussion at the 100th post. What's that mean? Isn't "100" a prime number? Or at least a big number?
Strike Update
- Thread starter brianluce
- Start date
I noticed you jumped into this discussion at the 100th post. What's that mean? Isn't "100" a prime number? Or at least a big number?
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
hey, guys!! random non sequitur!!!
Luis Caffesse
Admin
Comment refuting your non sequitur and questioning your use of 'random.'
Thinly veiled ad hominem attack.
smiley
Mattykins
Cute Member
Alright, again I will say that Third-World and First-World and everything is politically incorrect as of the fall of the soviet union. It's non-standard within the UN.
Alright, here's something to mention. Okay, you hate foreign films. Cool. But guess what? That is the STYLE of film making. Not a flaw. Most foreign film as generated AGAINST THE HOLLYWOOD SYSTEM. Which means taking the rules you learn in film school and throwing them to the wind. AKA The system of Continuity Editing, composition and such do NOT apply. Guess what? 5th generation Chinese film makers. They are using DV cams, running around and just shooting. That is THEIR STYLE. Get your head out of the Hollywood system and accept the foreign methods.
So by your definition as well, experimental film makers don't know what they are doing either? Avant Guarde filmmakers, just people who can't learn how to use a camera through common Hollywood Styles? Battle Ship Potempkin, ooh...Soviet Montage...**** because it doesn't follow the Hollywood style.
Okay, good argument...
And if writers are more marginal than a PA...damn, I have it good. Despite what you argue, Writers are pinnacle to the production of a film. I personally believe PAs are more marginal on a set. Hmm, what makes me think this is the fact we run coffee, answer typically to "where the fu*k are my PA's" and typically run back and forth trying to find talent and also trying to figure out why the hell the pizza is taking so long to get on set, then realizing someone didn't go to pick it up.
I don't know, that's just my way of viewing. I wouldn't be on set if it wasn't for a writer. And guess what? This will be the same problem the Directors and the Actors will come against in a few months. Guess what? They will probably strike too.
Anyone with any sense within the industry could see this coming. The exec. producer of the Saw franchise told me that we are screwed come November because the Writers WILL strike. A few months later, up go the pickets. It became a working daily threat in Hollywood in the months before the strike. People were forced to churn out scripts faster than before in case WGA did strike.
And regardless of what anyone here has to say. No one here is WGA. If you are, I congratulate you. But if you didn't vote, and you don't have to worry about getting paid with your content. Then why are you arguing online?
I personally get paid a flat fee. Like most people on set. And that is it. I walk off set once we wrap, and it's over. I might get a call to work again, or I might not. Fact of the matter is, my job is over. I helped make it happen, and it's done. However, the writer...well, that is their content. Just like the director made it happen, and the actors made it into something watchable. They should get paid for what they do. And since they create the script, they are, inherently more important than myself the Production Assistant.
Oh, and by the way...
http://www.wga.org/subpage_member.aspx?id=2480
And
http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=hottopic&id=2821
All the information you want about the strikes, and the fact that nothing has happened since negotiations went south on friday.
Alright, here's something to mention. Okay, you hate foreign films. Cool. But guess what? That is the STYLE of film making. Not a flaw. Most foreign film as generated AGAINST THE HOLLYWOOD SYSTEM. Which means taking the rules you learn in film school and throwing them to the wind. AKA The system of Continuity Editing, composition and such do NOT apply. Guess what? 5th generation Chinese film makers. They are using DV cams, running around and just shooting. That is THEIR STYLE. Get your head out of the Hollywood system and accept the foreign methods.
So by your definition as well, experimental film makers don't know what they are doing either? Avant Guarde filmmakers, just people who can't learn how to use a camera through common Hollywood Styles? Battle Ship Potempkin, ooh...Soviet Montage...**** because it doesn't follow the Hollywood style.
Okay, good argument...
And if writers are more marginal than a PA...damn, I have it good. Despite what you argue, Writers are pinnacle to the production of a film. I personally believe PAs are more marginal on a set. Hmm, what makes me think this is the fact we run coffee, answer typically to "where the fu*k are my PA's" and typically run back and forth trying to find talent and also trying to figure out why the hell the pizza is taking so long to get on set, then realizing someone didn't go to pick it up.
I don't know, that's just my way of viewing. I wouldn't be on set if it wasn't for a writer. And guess what? This will be the same problem the Directors and the Actors will come against in a few months. Guess what? They will probably strike too.
Anyone with any sense within the industry could see this coming. The exec. producer of the Saw franchise told me that we are screwed come November because the Writers WILL strike. A few months later, up go the pickets. It became a working daily threat in Hollywood in the months before the strike. People were forced to churn out scripts faster than before in case WGA did strike.
And regardless of what anyone here has to say. No one here is WGA. If you are, I congratulate you. But if you didn't vote, and you don't have to worry about getting paid with your content. Then why are you arguing online?
I personally get paid a flat fee. Like most people on set. And that is it. I walk off set once we wrap, and it's over. I might get a call to work again, or I might not. Fact of the matter is, my job is over. I helped make it happen, and it's done. However, the writer...well, that is their content. Just like the director made it happen, and the actors made it into something watchable. They should get paid for what they do. And since they create the script, they are, inherently more important than myself the Production Assistant.
Oh, and by the way...
http://www.wga.org/subpage_member.aspx?id=2480
And
http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=hottopic&id=2821
All the information you want about the strikes, and the fact that nothing has happened since negotiations went south on friday.
The other guilds' and unions' deals will be negotiated based upon what the writers and producers eventually agree to. So if you are an IA, or SAG, or AFLCIO, or to lesser degree a DGA member, this is has an immediate interest for you, too.
I always like to tell Production Assistants that they are important. Imagine the damage one well-placed production assistant could do, to a tightly-run production...
karapetkov
Well-known member
Highly unlikely. I'll allow myself to post an excerpt form The Godfather II script [it's freely downloadable
].MICHAEL
I saw an interesting thing today.
A man was being arrested by the
Military Police; probably an urban
guerrilla. Rather than be taken
alive, he exploded a grenade hidden
in his jacket, taking the command
vehicle with him.
I saw an interesting thing today.
A man was being arrested by the
Military Police; probably an urban
guerrilla. Rather than be taken
alive, he exploded a grenade hidden
in his jacket, taking the command
vehicle with him.
The various men look up as Michael eats his cake, wondering
what the point of it is.
what the point of it is.
MICHAEL
It occurred to me: the police are
paid to fight, and the Rebels are
not.
It occurred to me: the police are
paid to fight, and the Rebels are
not.
SAM ROTH
So?
So?
MICHAEL
They could win.
They could win.
[In the original script the line is "So, that occurred to me. ", but the one that ended up in the movie is better.]
It's been remarkable how easily the crackers destroy every conceivable kind of digital protection over the last 10-15 years.
DVD regions?, DRM?, Adobe?, Microsoft? - you name it
.Even with ten new versions of the Internet it will be quite impossible to counter piracy, unless Russia, China and India are occupied by the armies of First World coutures, which seems a tad difficult to me
.There are a lot of uncivilized but code-breaking monkeys in India, which crack the latest and strongest Adobe protection as university assignment. And I haven't reflected in depth on China and Russia yet.
IMHO, the industry has to change its entire pricing and distribution philosophy or it will simply not survive.
This has to be true. Here's what I've observed, in the Philippines where piracy is rampant, the price of a licensed DVD is equal to about 2 days of wages. And they wonder why every street corner is selling pirated movies.
If they sold DVD's in America for $500 a piece, don't think they'd have many sales.
karapetkov
Well-known member
Exactly!
karapetkov
Well-known member
Yes, but this situation is different, because usually sellers control the delivery of the products they're selling: They establish the price, they make sales or not but they keep the product [if it doesn't get sold].
Now, with digital music and films they simply do not have that control, because a single DVD is enough to make a billion pirated copies on the Inet overnight. And there's practically nothing that they can do about it
.If all the citizens of the world had equal potential for purchase [equal wages, etc.], I would care for the poor seller, but given the actual situation, I sincerely do not.
And.. just an example:
If a shampoo seller manages to get 100 % profit out of a shampoo's production cost, he would be regarded as a successful businessman and the shampoo - a successful product.
Usually movies that do make just 100 % profit above their production budget are considered "box office flops". A movie has to crack the box office and collect 300, 400 or more % profit to be considered a success.
The production budget of Titanic is 200 mln. and it has generated nearly 2 billion worldwide. Now ain't that a sweet business
.OK, Titanic is a fine movie, but hey... Why don't we cut that apple a little bit?
[If the figures aren't exactly accurate, I'm sorry - I'm not a financial guy].
In a sense sellers *are* obliged. Sellers have to adjust prices to the market or face the prospect of no sales. Their choice. Pharma companies have figured this out--meds in the Philippines are a fraction of what they are in the states--which sorta undercuts their long running argument that meds are expensive in order to pay for R&D--but that's another story.
Anyway, I just see it as the market at work. This is the side of piracy no one ever talks about. Microsoft is apparently coming around on this, so far not Hollywood though.
Luis Caffesse
Admin
This conversation has taken an interesting turn. So it seems now we're saying that 'Hollywood' needs to charge less for their product but give more to the people who make it....
CallaghanFilms
Veteran
I guess we should really stick it to the man.
karapetkov
Well-known member
Isn't the man all that matters actually?
BIG EDIT: Not the man, but the human being.
...
FURTHER EDIT: If a DVD costs 15-20 $ in the US it would be fair to cost 1 or 2 $ in China, because the average wage of the Chinese is... I dunno, [but they are a billion fellows after all ].
And some other utopian proposition - why don't skip DVDs and make legal downloads for movies available worldwide [the Inet practically transforms the world into a global village - that would be a one-click-away action].
Then you give it a "world" price: You measure that this content would legally sell in the US for 20 $, but would sell in Russia for 7 $ and in China for 1 $. So you give it a "world" price of 3 or 5 $ or whatever [small and fair enough internationally].
Imagine that the movie is a total hit and you potentially get 500 mln. downloads.................. these are 1,5 billion dollars, guys!
And even a billion potential downloads aren't so futuristic, just takes technological time.
3 billion dollars out of legal downloads?!
THAT DOESN'T HURT AT ALL !!!!
And it's actually a better business in every way!
P.S. I'm flying... I'm really flying... :engel017:
BIG EDIT: Not the man, but the human being.
...
FURTHER EDIT: If a DVD costs 15-20 $ in the US it would be fair to cost 1 or 2 $ in China, because the average wage of the Chinese is... I dunno, [but they are a billion fellows after all
].And some other utopian proposition - why don't skip DVDs and make legal downloads for movies available worldwide [the Inet practically transforms the world into a global village - that would be a one-click-away action].
Then you give it a "world" price: You measure that this content would legally sell in the US for 20 $, but would sell in Russia for 7 $ and in China for 1 $. So you give it a "world" price of 3 or 5 $ or whatever [small and fair enough internationally
].Imagine that the movie is a total hit and you potentially get 500 mln. downloads.................. these are 1,5 billion dollars, guys!
And even a billion potential downloads aren't so futuristic, just takes technological time.
3 billion dollars out of legal downloads?!
THAT DOESN'T HURT AT ALL !!!!
And it's actually a better business in every way!
P.S. I'm flying... I'm really flying... :engel017:
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If they charged less in 3rd world countries they'd push back piracy and do volume. Theatrical fees are properly adjusted, you can see a first run Hollywood feature for $1-2 in the Philippines. DVD's are another story though.
"Okay, you hate foreign films. Cool. "
I must, having done a lot of development with Indonesian companies on Indonesian language productions, with a crew at Skycron consisting almost entirely of international personnel. While we're at it, I must really be an enemy to international cinema, with almost 70% of my movie collection being international films. (More like 80%, but I'll cut you some slack.)
The "style card" to excuse for technical glitches is getting so old. I never said anything about DIFFERENT filmmaking techniques or breaking film convention as being bad. I said stuff like audio distortion and bleached film is bad. That falls a little outside of the jurisdiction of style and into the realm of technical. Maybe having your red VU leds having burned out is stylistic innovation for you?
"But guess what? That is the STYLE of film making. Not a flaw. "
By your logic, then, I guess me going out with a camcorder and shaking it around is a style, eh? Who needs composition? I mean, while we're at it, why do we even need a DoP? Obviously anyone with a camera that shakes it around is doing it on purpose, and is thus a style. Film processing? Who needs it?
It's very easy for someone to turn around and assume any negative comment about a foreign film is racist. It's a fallacy and a weak argument.
Go back and read what I wrote within the context of which I've written it, and we'll try it again.
I'm reminded of a quote from Ratatouille: "I'd like some perspective. No? Well, since you're fresh out of perspective, tell your chef to hit me with his best shot."
I must, having done a lot of development with Indonesian companies on Indonesian language productions, with a crew at Skycron consisting almost entirely of international personnel. While we're at it, I must really be an enemy to international cinema, with almost 70% of my movie collection being international films. (More like 80%, but I'll cut you some slack.)
The "style card" to excuse for technical glitches is getting so old. I never said anything about DIFFERENT filmmaking techniques or breaking film convention as being bad. I said stuff like audio distortion and bleached film is bad. That falls a little outside of the jurisdiction of style and into the realm of technical. Maybe having your red VU leds having burned out is stylistic innovation for you?
"But guess what? That is the STYLE of film making. Not a flaw. "
By your logic, then, I guess me going out with a camcorder and shaking it around is a style, eh? Who needs composition? I mean, while we're at it, why do we even need a DoP? Obviously anyone with a camera that shakes it around is doing it on purpose, and is thus a style. Film processing? Who needs it?
It's very easy for someone to turn around and assume any negative comment about a foreign film is racist. It's a fallacy and a weak argument.
Go back and read what I wrote within the context of which I've written it, and we'll try it again.
I'm reminded of a quote from Ratatouille: "I'd like some perspective. No? Well, since you're fresh out of perspective, tell your chef to hit me with his best shot."
alex whitmer
Veteran
Who are you talking too?
After this often misdirected discussion, I decided to create an international film section on my site, from the best examples to the worst, and from classics to made yesterday. Underconstuction, but coming along.
If anybody has suggestions on films, actors, directors, etc from anyplace on the planet, let me know and I'll add it.
alex
www.alewhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com
www.thegoloaffair.wordpress.com
.
After this often misdirected discussion, I decided to create an international film section on my site, from the best examples to the worst, and from classics to made yesterday. Underconstuction, but coming along.
If anybody has suggestions on films, actors, directors, etc from anyplace on the planet, let me know and I'll add it.
alex
www.alewhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com
www.thegoloaffair.wordpress.com
.
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Majid Majidi's "Color of Paradise". From Persia.
