Strategies for filming with two different camcorders...

[tomperson]

Hi all,
We're in the preproduction phase of our first short doc. Our budget is really tight, and despite the fact that we really want to get a good product, it will probably be more of a big experiment for learning the process and all those small details that can make or break a production, that you only learn from experience.

This short doc will be about a group of guys that practice urban sports. Our idea is to keep it "fresh", "dynamic", and with a definitely "urban" feeling. We plan to film as much as possible outdoors and in movement (walking), including interviews. The idea is more or less to have a "chat", not a classic talking head thing.

We have a Canon HV20E and a Panasonic NV-GS250 (both PAL camcorders). We'll be rehearsing possible approaches to filming with both cameras. The final output will be standard definition, not sure whether 4:3 or 16:9.

Some Qs:

1) What technical stuff should i take into account to make the shots consistent between the two cameras? White balance/recording modes/etc. Kind of a checklist before every shooting.

2) What are the usual strategies for filming this kind of program material with 2 cameras? I thought of using one of the camcorders for general coverage, and the other one for B-Rolls, Close UPs, etc.

3) What creative possibilities can I take into account regarding mixing 25p (HV20) and 50i (GS250) footage?

4) Would you shoot everything interlaced in order to avoid jumps in the look of the different shots, or would you use the differences for aesthetics purposes (i like this idea). If so, how?

I guess this is for now. I'll come back later with more Qs!

THANKS GUYS!

 

[TheLimey]

1) matching different models of camera's all ways a bit tricky, you best bet is to shoot the same format, white balance off the same surface, and make sure the F-stop and shutter speeds are the same. I'm not familiar with those cameras, but if one of both of them had any sort of 'look' settings (sharpness, chroma etc) then you could set them up side by side with a monitor and try and match them.

Of course the alternative is that you could just have a completely different look - black and white for the B camera for example.

2) pretty much what you said, keep one wide/medium, use the other for close-ups and cutaways. (quick tip, shoot LOTS of cutaways, they hide a multitude of sins in editing)

3 & 4) not quite sure quite what you mean here, if you want to match the footage, shoot the same format (50i), setting one to progressive will make the other one look very 'video' - unless that's what you want.

 

[tomperson]

HEYYY! THANKS for the reply! I thought no one cared about the questions

1) I know mixing footage is tricky. We've already done it to some extent, and I'd love to have two Canon HV20s, but we'll have to do our best with the gear we have - our budget is as close to 0 as it can get. What's our best bet for White Balance? Should we use the presets if possible, or would you recommend going manual? What kind of surface would you recommend aiming at? Would a white sheet of paper or cardboard do?

2) Thanks for the suggestions.

3/4) What I meant is: if you had just two camcorders, one of them can record progressive (HV20), and the other one can't, what would you do? Would you stick to interlaced so as to match both cameras? Would you use this difference to your advantage? If so, how? What would YOU do? (I hope to get some creative ideas here)

The thing is, I love the look of progressive scan, and It would be a pity not to use it somehow in this project. The question is how, when. I know I just can't mix the two without paying attention to this issue, so, if i'm gonna do it, i better do it with a strategy in mind.

Another question. Which camera would you use for wide/medium shots and which for closeups?

Panasonic GS250:
http://www.simplydv.co.uk/Reviews/panasonic_nv-gs250.html

Canon HV20:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-HV20-Camcorder-Review.htm

And finally (for now, at least), what aspect ratio would you recommend for this kind of doc? Both cameras can record "proper" 16:9....

THANKS AGAIN GUYS

 

[TheLimey]

when using two cameras, it's probably best to stick to the presets, in case the camera interpret the the 'white' sample. if you do choose to manual white balance, whatever you can find that is closest to 'pure' white, thought a neat trick is to balance off something slightly blue (i use the back-light on my phone) and it will give a nice warm look under daylight. you could also reverse this to get a cool blue-ish look.

it is a shame to lose the progressive, why not use the HV20 in progressive, and then de-interlace the GS250?

as the HV20 is progressive, i would use that as my A camera - getting the wide/medium - and then use the panasonic for cutaways, as it will be less prominent.

 

[scar this armada]

I might just shoot the interview part 25p and maybe the more action stuff with your panasonic, or vise versa. Kinda like news channles do sometimes. The interview part looks nicer than the actual live footage.

 

[tomperson]

when using two cameras, it's probably best to stick to the presets, in case the camera interpret the the 'white' sample. if you do choose to manual white balance, whatever you can find that is closest to 'pure' white, thought a neat trick is to balance off something slightly blue (i use the back-light on my phone) and it will give a nice warm look under daylight. you could also reverse this to get a cool blue-ish look.

Interesting tip, i kinda like it! So, you stick your cell phone in front of the camera so as to cover the whole field of view and white balance against that?
Would you use the same tip indoors?

it is a shame to lose the progressive, why not use the HV20 in progressive, and then de-interlace the GS250?

What would you use to deinterlace? I think Vegas does it on its own when dropping an interlaced clip in a progressive scan project, but I feel the difference between HV20 footage and GS250 is still there. Are there better ways to do this? (maybe a third party program to deinterlace). Will I lose definition/quality if I deinterlace?

as the HV20 is progressive, i would use that as my A camera - getting the wide/medium - and then use the panasonic for cutaways, as it will be less prominent.

That's exactly how I think I'll do it. And then we'll have something like small video clips in between (as the "urban sport" thing is quite good for this), and I intend to shoot as much as possible with the HV20 in progressive scan for this.

So, in the end, you would just use the HV20 with progressive scan and the GS250 interlaced, then deinterlace GS250 footage in post and live with the differences instead of filming everything interlaced, right?

And, should I film in TV mode with 1/48 shutter to get that "filmish" motion look in both?

 

[TheLimey]

So, you stick your cell phone in front of the camera so as to cover the whole field of view and white balance against that?

Yup, exactly that. of course the result will change from phone to phone, so hook the camera up to a TV and see how it looks. if you do it under tungsten lighting, it can go very orange, so i wouldn't recommend it.

So, in the end, you would just use the HV20 with progressive scan and the GS250 interlaced, then deinterlace GS250 footage in post and live with the differences instead of filming everything interlaced, right?

Exactly.

for deinterlacing, I've read that magic bullet is the best, it gets a lot of good reviews, i've never used it though so it's probably best to ask around.

1/48 shutter is not something i've used before, so i'll have to leave that to someone else.

 

[tomperson]

1/48 shutter, anyone?

As to the "urban look", what do you guys suggest. What is "urban" to you? If you were asked to make a video look "urban", what would you do?

I thought about filming lots of concrete, graffitis, streets, pavement. Not much sky. Quite saturated and with high contrast (like lomo photography). "Gritty".

What do you think.