Starting out lighting kit

P

pmcdonald

Active member
I've been working for others using 3 x 600 and 900 LED kits but after renting for a bit I'm looking to build up my own inexpensive kit.

I shoot mainly solo operator corporate interview and montage content. My thoughts are a strong single LED panel powered by V-lock batteries for outdoor work, supplemented by a small 2 or 3 panel LED kit when working indoors near AC power.

I'm thinking something like this for the strong(ish) outdoor LED: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1367522-REG/dracast_drsppl1000b_s_series_led1000_plus.html


And I'm trying to weigh up between these type of kits for the smaller indoor lights:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._int502_f5_two_head_fluorescent_lighting.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/610081-REG/Westcott_403_uLite_3_Light_Video.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...672kit_wws_amaran_3_point_2_flood_1_spot.html

The price is right for the first two, but I'm hesitant to return to the heat from the halogen kit and the lack of portability of mains powered bulbs.

Though something like this could do double duty indoor and outdoors when it wasn't windy enough to act as a giant sail: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._c_700rsv_c_700rsv_flapjack_bi_color_led.html

Thoughts, suggestions, crits?
 
Been thinking about this a lot lately in slowly converting from tungsten to LED:

In my experience, outdoors are better served by a combination of bounce, diffusion (silks), and negative fill. It’s very newsy to just chunk a strong LED panel down and blast your talent quartering in the face, so it can work in the right context. A strong daylight source is never a bad thing to have, though. It can dim, gel, blast through diffusion, and give you more options than something that’s “just strong enough.” To that end, Astra panels are a rugged industry standard, and I’ve seen old stock 4x daylight Astras selling for $500. There’s really no downside there, aside from being a little bulky.

Avoid those multi-fluoro-Edison-bulb kits at all costs. They put out miserable light and have zero durability.

I’ve used those Aperture Amarans, they’re good for the price. Two could serve as rim and background, or evenly fill a white or green screen, and a third to toy with wherever needed.

One option I’m approaching with serious intent is the Quasar Kino conversion. The more I consider it, it may be my personal perfect option: 4-6 bi-color dimmable LEDs with good color and output that either work together in a single soft source for key or fill, or can pop out separately to go elsewhere when other sources are needed in a setup. Downside is “battery power” would involve a car battery and inverter.

Either way, make sure you have enough blacks, bounce, and diffusion, and grip to put them where you need. Those things are cheap and will never crap out or be eclipsed by the next technology.
 
My "grab and go" light kit is similar to the third (Aputure Amaran) kit listed in your message, plus an additional Aputure LS1S daylight light when something stronger is needed. The Aputure lights work well, share the same remote, and are a good deal for the price. The smaller Amarans are of pretty lightweight construction which makes them both easy to transport and set up, and also perhaps less durable than more expensive lights. As a single operator who is very careful with equipment, this hasn't been a problem for me, but you should consider your usage scenarios.

Note that you will also need stands with the Aputure kit and will probably want a few other grip and diffusion options as well. Be sure to budget for these.

For any kind of mobile shooting, I wouldn't even think about tungsten or fluorescent these days, even though an equivalent LED fixture may cost a little more up front. I hope I never have to change a hot bulb or track down a blown breaker in a client's building again.

- Greg
 
For bottom dollar budget - the Yongnuo YN900 and YN600 lights are fantastic for the money. In a pinch I've used 2 and even 3 of them on a bar from B&H and run them through diffusion outside. Frankly I've even used one of them close to a person outdoors with no diffusion and that has worked as well. 2 of them will give you the punch of an astra at a fraction of the cost running cheap Sony L batteries. That's a great budget start The color is damn good.
If you want lights that will work outdoors don't get bicolors ( unless they are Astra because they are usually stronger if they are all daylight bulbs. The Astras for some reason don't get weaker when bicolor.)

Remember you can diffuse any light but outdoors those soft light LEDs won't give you much poop at all. Outdoors its surprising how hard your key light can be and still look OK.
They have noisy fans but on the YN600's I just jam something in the the fan to stop it and have never had a problem. On the 900 you can buy a cheap fan that's much quieter than the one that comes with it. But you do have to open it to do that. Easy fix though. They make a YN1200 also but it uses 4 Sony L batts but I'm reluctant to trust 4 of those at the same time.

Of course for exteriors your always better off with a bounce and/or silks.
 
Greg Smith said:
My "grab and go" light kit is similar to the third (Aputure Amaran) kit listed in your message, plus an additional Aputure LS1S daylight light when something stronger is needed. The Aputure lights work well, share the same remote, and are a good deal for the price.

Note that you will also need stands with the Aputure kit and will probably want a few other grip and diffusion options as well. Be sure to budget for these.

For any kind of mobile shooting, I wouldn't even think about tungsten or fluorescent these days, even though an equivalent LED fixture may cost a little more up front. I hope I never have to change a hot bulb or track down a blown breaker in a client's building again.

- Greg
Click to expand...

Thanks for the production tested feedback Greg. I've used the Apurture Amaran kit once on a shoot with a couple of quick interviews. They were beside strong natural light so I didn't get a sense of how well they would work day to day. I'm leaning towards 3 x smaller LED's in a kit plus a strong LED at this stage.

Yes, I'll have a good think about accessories as well. I'd love a nice big softbox solution to turn the larger LED into something like the FotodioX I linked.

And thanks for putting the nail in the coffin of my idle fluoro or tungsten musings. You're right - there's so many reasons not to go there on fast, quick shoots. I can distinctly remember the singed finger feel all these years on from replacing blown halogen globes as a lowly production assistant.

mcbob said:
Been thinking about this a lot lately in slowly converting from tungsten to LED:

In my experience, outdoors are better served by a combination of bounce, diffusion (silks), and negative fill. It’s very newsy to just chunk a strong LED panel down and blast your talent quartering in the face, so it can work in the right context. A strong daylight source is never a bad thing to have, though. It can dim, gel, blast through diffusion, and give you more options than something that’s “just strong enough.” To that end, Astra panels are a rugged industry standard, and I’ve seen old stock 4x daylight Astras selling for $500. There’s really no downside there, aside from being a little bulky.

Either way, make sure you have enough blacks, bounce, and diffusion, and grip to put them where you need. Those things are cheap and will never crap out or be eclipsed by the next technology.
Click to expand...

I hear you with the outdoor lighting. If I have the free hands it's always nicer to work around the available light than brute force the subject with light panels. I guess what I'm after outdoors is a little something to balance the shadow or kick some extra light in when shooting in shade or overcast weather. I stress the work I do isn't high end. My lighting used to be horrific but little but little I feel it's getting more natural.

On reflection what I want from the kit is something lightweight, portable, minimum fuss to setup, offering a good output, and affordable - meaning a kit that achieves the prior points for a cost effective price. The Amaran sounds like it hits most of those points.

LennyLevy said:
For bottom dollar budget - the Yongnuo YN900 and YN600 lights are fantastic for the money. In a pinch I've used 2 and even 3 of them on a bar from B&H and run them through diffusion outside. Frankly I've even used one of them close to a person outdoors with no diffusion and that has worked as well. 2 of them will give you the punch of an astra at a fraction of the cost running cheap Sony L batteries. That's a great budget start The color is damn good.
If you want lights that will work outdoors don't get bicolors ( unless they are Astra because they are usually stronger if they are all daylight bulbs. The Astras for some reason don't get weaker when bicolor.)

Remember you can diffuse any light but outdoors those soft light LEDs won't give you much poop at all. Outdoors its surprising how hard your key light can be and still look OK.
They have noisy fans but on the YN600's I just jam something in the the fan to stop it and have never had a problem. On the 900 you can buy a cheap fan that's much quieter than the one that comes with it. But you do have to open it to do that. Easy fix though. They make a YN1200 also but it uses 4 Sony L batts but I'm reluctant to trust 4 of those at the same time.

Of course for exteriors your always better off with a bounce and/or silks.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the Yongnuo tip. I had one of their flashes for stills photography years ago. The panel wasn't on my radar but makes a lot of sense: stupidly low price and Sony battery compatible saves me hundreds on V-locks. The fan hack sounds a must. How is the output of the 900?
 
The output on the YN900 is enormous for the money.
However great deal these days are the falcon eyes RX-24TDX, RX-18TDX and RX-12TDX. These are bicolor LED roll up panels with diffusion frames that velcro on. They cost a little more but do run of V mt batts and have great output, are soft or hard and good color quality. Worth looking into. Its my favorite light these days. There is also the Intellytech TC160 which is like the RX-24 ( 2x2LED) but i think a little step up and worth the extra money if you have it.
 
pmcdonald said:
I've been working for others using 3 x 600 and 900 LED kits but after renting for a bit I'm looking to build up my own inexpensive kit.

I shoot mainly solo operator corporate interview and montage content. My thoughts are a strong single LED panel powered by V-lock batteries for outdoor work, supplemented by a small 2 or 3 panel LED kit when working indoors near AC power.

I'm thinking something like this for the strong(ish) outdoor LED: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1367522-REG/dracast_drsppl1000b_s_series_led1000_plus.html


And I'm trying to weigh up between these type of kits for the smaller indoor lights:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._int502_f5_two_head_fluorescent_lighting.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/610081-REG/Westcott_403_uLite_3_Light_Video.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...672kit_wws_amaran_3_point_2_flood_1_spot.html

The price is right for the first two, but I'm hesitant to return to the heat from the halogen kit and the lack of portability of mains powered bulbs.

Though something like this could do double duty indoor and outdoors when it wasn't windy enough to act as a giant sail: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._c_700rsv_c_700rsv_flapjack_bi_color_led.html

Thoughts, suggestions, crits?
Click to expand...

You should just get an aputure 300d, one of their light dome soft boxes (regular or mini), and a yongnuo YN360 ii.

A stand like the Kupo master cine stand, although heavier, is way easier to transport than a c-stand and you won't ever have to throw it away.

There's no point in having a larger light for outdoors then a set of smaller lights for indoors. Just use the larger light inside.

I've said this before, portability isn't a pro with LED lighting. Using them remotely is one of their benefits but the two are different. There are often way more pieces to move (there are exceptions e.g. Aputure M9), awkward shapes etc. so LEDs are not that compact. Add enough batteries to power your LEDs all day and you've broken the bank, have even more to think about when shooting, and are carrying a significant amount of equipment. Of course this also depends on how you're moving equipment and how many people are on the shoot but you need to think of how everything works as a total system.

I'd say a single aputure 300d with a softbox is your best bet as a self-contained, strong soft light. Use power on location until you know for sure you need the ability to run it from batteries. Throw the light wand on backgrounds or back of talent while embracing its integrated battery.

If that's too expensive then do what mcbob said and pickup a used Astra (or Aputure120d).
 
Thanks Lenny and Rob.

I've been eyeing off the LED light mats with interest. Big win on the portability and weight front!

The Aputure 300D is also on my wish list. I've seen them in action and they're fantastic units. What's with the ballast fan though?

My only hesitation with both is I'm frequently shooting away from mains power and, at this stage anyway, keen to avoid the additional cost of V-lock's (my exception being the Core Powerbase for the camera). I figure I'd need at least 4 - 6 150Ah batteries to comfortably run the 300D for a few shaded outdoor interviews so that blows the whole endeavour into a new price bracket.

Reading back over this post and a few of my others lately I've realised I'm a very cost conscious person. Our field is a veritable candy store of toys and I would LOVE to have a simple, stripped down kit comprised of just top notch gear. But much like most of our clients I'm sure, I return to the question 'What's the minimum I need to spend to get the results I want?' As this is the first time I'm responsible for selecting and paying for the kit I'm still stumbling through the answer to that.
 
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B Board and a clamp is going to be more useful outdoors than any battery powered light if there is any daylight available.

I would focus on finding a couple of used bicolor panels putting out 100watts or more. Then buy some diffusion. I tend to most shoot inside, though. When, I'm outside, it is just diffusion and bounces. If I needed to actually light something, I would be reaching for 400watt or more HMI's. LED's don't seem to me to be the right tool for fighting the sun with their current limitations.
 
1st) I would strongly consider you get C-stands even if they are most expensive then light stand. Will last you much longer, they can be easily reselled and can be used outside.

2nd) Get gripping, ideally always something that can fit in a car. I wouldn't get anything above 4x4 because it requires a team of people to grip. Ideally, a foldable 4x4 frame with diffusion would be the best. But your gonna need a c-stand to rig that(see #1)

3rd) As previously stated by nearly everyone, YN or Aputure are the go-to in LED panels in terms of power\price. I use Lightstorm 1s and they are great, you can also get the Aputure 120d ii, the reviews are fantastic.
 
Well got a pair of Yongnuo YN900's. They're great little units - fan replacement is in the works - with a nice punchy output for the size, good battery life and lightweight. Remote is a plus. Lack of tilt function out of the box is not.

The YN900's will be great up close for lighting subjects but I do feel I'm going to need something as more of a brute force background fill. I don't need batteries for that light and I'm not even necessarily after an LED solution - just something double or triple the strength of the YN900's and cheap. Anything fit the bill?
 
Pilgrim your search is over. I don't think you'll find anything with the punch of the Yongnuo's that's anywhere near as cheap or good, however I've been using this bar to mount 3 of them at a time on one stand and the output is enormous. Best to run a 4x4 frame inf front to diffuse but even just putting diffusion on the barn doors themselves will do it. I've used it outside and it out will outperform an astra. Can truly be used for exterior fill or key to fight the sun.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/851218-REG/impact_lb_230l_adj_twin_shoe_umbrella.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/851203-REG/impact_lb_430l_lightbar_tilt_brackt_with.html

The trick is to get some cheap baby studs with 1/4" 20 thread hole in the bottom and you simply unscrew the shoe mounts and replace them with your baby studs then place your YN900's side by side.

The mounts are adjustable and I have mine set up with 2 on top and 1 more upside down so I
I've done 2 YN600's and 1 YN900 because that's what I happen to own. Couldn't fit 4 but 3 is pretty good.
Its a little more of a PITA than a single light but very powerful and very cheap. Through a 4x4 its soft also.
The only other thing I can think of is a Falcon Eyes RX24TD which is also a great light and very cheap.


I use these studs because they're small & cheap though it takes a little time to ship from China. If you buy from the ILED web site it ships faster than if you go to Amazon , though the ILED site goes to amazon anyway for the actual purchase.

https://www.iledgear.com/1-4-male-thread-to-baby-pin-stud/

Lenny Levy
 
Just a thought regarding the Dracast 1000 panel referenced by the OP. As I have converted to daylight LED's from an Arri tungsten kit, I have purchased Dracast mostly and for the most part been satisfied. They aren't as nicely built as Arri products, but are also significantly less money. So value received from Dracast.

But about that Dracast 1000: the legs on the yoke are not long enough to swivel the light through the base. Too short. The 500 series panels don't suffer this unfortunate feature. This rather unthinkable feature really limits the ease of use of the fixture forcing you to go horizontal orientation for some setups. When I asked Dracast about this, the CS rep said they have heard about this from customers but so far, haven't changed the design. It wouldn't be too tough to build a yoke with longer legs, most any fab shop that works aluminum could build one for less than $100 and IMHO would be a needed mod to make the light easier to use.

This is just a silly detail that really makes a difference in the field.

Otherwise, Dracast lights have been pretty good for the money.

Grant
 
bboyswoosh87 said:
When I tested these lights out they had a slight magenta cast to my eye. Do you also have the same problem?
Click to expand...

When you say "to my eye", do you mean to your actual eye, or on-camera? Because I've seen many LED's that look weird to the naked eye, but correct on-camera. And vice-versa...
 
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