j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
Where's does the Bingo Parlor fit in?
Star Wars VII Cast announced, original members coming back!!
- Thread starter Ted Ramasola
- Start date
Where's does the Bingo Parlor fit in?
Andrius Simutis
Veteran
I remember watching some behind the scenes clip where George Lucas is showing Steven Speilberg around the sets. Lucas was so proud of Jar Jar and the tech behind the film. He was also saying how much the kids would like Jar Jar. That pretty much sums up the outcome of the movie quite a bit…a kids movie with more attention to technology than the human elements like acting and direction. I don't want to crap on George Lucas, the guy created this whole thing, has a lot more credit and accomplished than this entire online community combined, but he got a little lost in the tech and didn't get the most out of his actors. I only hope that the new team can pull good performances that make the movie worth watching for anyone.
Ian-T
Veteran
^^^
This.
Egg Born Son
Veteran
I recently watched all six back to back and was quite disappointed. They were the new blurays and the originals were completely ruined by bad special edition cgi in every other frame and inserts that completely ruined the pacing.
But one thing I particularly noted was how much better the lightsaber battles were in the originals. The prequel battles (like hollywood sex scenes) stop the movie for a sequence of video game coolness. But in the originals the battles are part of the script serving the story. Instead of asian-cinema inspired martial arts action in the prequels (which I LOVE in low budget hong kong films but never feels quite right in a big budget hollywood movie), the originals hark in part to the swashbuckling style of old hollywood and in part to the samurai films that inspired it, where battles are stillness before being settled in one or two actions. In the originals battles are actually mostly talking punctuated by the occasional parry, thrust and riposte.
Batutta
Major Contributor
PSSST...There's a blu-ray quality de-specialized version of the OT floating around the internets if you know where to look.
Egg Born Son
Veteran
Ooo, thanks for the heads up. I tried really hard when I was watching them to put aside criticism that star wars fans are a bunch of whingers and nitpicking everything when I watched them. I really tried to watch just from a pure movie critic perspective. Tried to ignore Greedo shooting first, tried to ignore Jar Jar. And I think I was quite successful to that end. By and large I was surprised to conclude that the movies, even the originals, kinda sucked. It's amazing how the difference between a great movie and a bearable movie can be such a small adjustment.
I guess a little bit was middle age, a little bit was dating. But once I got past the kneejerk reactions it really was the hundreds of little changes more than the big ones that ruin them. An editor should aim for a lean and mean edit focussed on story. The re-edits were entirely focussed on how much could be crammed into the background with story and character completely ignored. On Tattooine well balanced framing became choked up with characters and details. The now seriously dated CGI did not mix happily at all with the original footage. Pacing lost all tension. For the first time I noticed how bad the acting was in IV in particular. Is this because of use of alternate takes, footage from the cutting room floor or was it always that bad? I don't know. Haven't had access to the theatrical cuts in a long time. Disengaged by the edit as I was, with no emotional involvement I was paying more attention to things like watching Mark Hammil's acting develop through the films. By Jedi he was even good at times.
The prequels were the weirdest to watch. Watching them in a single sitting after the originals everything I enjoyed or tolerated when they came out was the stuff I hated the most (like the epic saber battles) and didn't mind so much things like the politics and Jar Jar (who my nephew likes and I tried to watch through his eyes). Anakin (both actors) was still insufferable. Yet I've seen both actors in other things and they can act so you can only really blame the misplaced priorities of the direction and editing.
I guess a little bit was middle age, a little bit was dating. But once I got past the kneejerk reactions it really was the hundreds of little changes more than the big ones that ruin them. An editor should aim for a lean and mean edit focussed on story. The re-edits were entirely focussed on how much could be crammed into the background with story and character completely ignored. On Tattooine well balanced framing became choked up with characters and details. The now seriously dated CGI did not mix happily at all with the original footage. Pacing lost all tension. For the first time I noticed how bad the acting was in IV in particular. Is this because of use of alternate takes, footage from the cutting room floor or was it always that bad? I don't know. Haven't had access to the theatrical cuts in a long time. Disengaged by the edit as I was, with no emotional involvement I was paying more attention to things like watching Mark Hammil's acting develop through the films. By Jedi he was even good at times.
The prequels were the weirdest to watch. Watching them in a single sitting after the originals everything I enjoyed or tolerated when they came out was the stuff I hated the most (like the epic saber battles) and didn't mind so much things like the politics and Jar Jar (who my nephew likes and I tried to watch through his eyes). Anakin (both actors) was still insufferable. Yet I've seen both actors in other things and they can act so you can only really blame the misplaced priorities of the direction and editing.
KyleProhaska
Veteran
So much fuss around the internet lately about there not being enough women or different skin colors in the cast. Really ridiculous. Nobody can win anymore. If you don't make every film into a showcase for the UN you're a terrible person. It's so stupid...and infuriates me honestly. This world is so PC now...
Bring on the next movie, just make it good.
Bring on the next movie, just make it good.
Darren Levine
Veteran
I'm plenty against whitewashing,... but star wars was fairly washed to begin with... whitewashing is offensive when source material has a distinct definition of what the race/accent/ethnicity/etc are. star wars is about space... and aside from the aliens, it was already pretty darn white to begin with
Batutta
Major Contributor
By Star Wars standards this cast is fairly diverse. From what I hear, John Boyega has the lead role. And Oscar Isaac is actually Hispanic (Cuban/Guatemalan). People just gotta complain about something.
Egg Born Son
Veteran
It's a complicated issue. But I think the question must be asked of a project like this (which will have massive global reach) is, does it hurt the project to include diversity? The answer is a resounding no. Other than Blazing Saddles, Lando was one of the first times I can recall seing a non-white in anything approaching a significant role and I thought he was as cool as Han. Since then watching a diverse range of english speaking and non-english speaking cinema has greatly enhanced my life. The problem with choosing to include 'the UN' as someone put it isn't in the colour of the actors skin. It is when they are included but then required to play the 'black guy' or the 'asian girl' or 'the muslim with a heart of gold'. If they are drafted in to just 'be', then the rebalancing is invisible in this increasingly cosmopolitan western world.
The Star Wars Universe has a distinct time line. Different games and authors have tackled stories at various eras in the Star Wars Universe. A story set in a different era is not a "prequel". The stories are unrelated to the original Star Wars movies as far as the plot, either the originals or the prequels. They are set in the same Universe, same races, technology, the Force, the Sith, etc. but they are not in any way a "prequel" to the star wars movie plots.
BBY is used to denote some eras, Before Battle of Yavin, when the Death Star is destroyed. So for example there is a story about the very beginning of the Jedi, Dawn of the Jedi: Force Storm #1. This takes place over 35,000 years BBY. The story has absolutely nothing to do with Luke, Leia, Han, Darth Vader, the Rebel alliance, etc.
Some of the stories I like, written by very talented authors and game developers, take place during The Old Republic Era, and more specifically during the Knights of the Old Republic, about 4,000 BBY.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Old_Republic_era
Since the original cast is involved, obviously the new movies are sequels. I'd like to see some new stories in the Star Wars Universe that have nothing to do with Han, Luke, Leia, Darth Vader, Chewbacca, etc. They're great characters but it would be nice to see them branch out in the story telling without having to maintain those characters and continue the plot of the original movies.
Some of the stories take place about 130 ABY (after Battle of Yavin) and I wouldn't consider them "sequels", just stories set in the Star Wars Universe in a time period well after the original series.
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I think this attention to technology which results in a failure to keep up with the most important things that make a good movie, script, plot, acting, etc., is similar to what happens to a lot of indie film makers that get caught up in camera technolgy. They're looking at HD and how to make it "cinematic", and then it's 4k, or the next big Gimbal system they have to have, or drones that can fly your camera for aerial shots, etc., when all they really need is some sticks and a camera and a good script and some good actors.
Batutta
Major Contributor
Well clearly your geek-dom far exceeds mine!...I don't have much interest in Star Wars beyond the movies. I read half of Heir to the Empire and didn't feel compelled to read any further. Couldn't even get into the Clone Wars. Reminded me too much of the prequels. I kind of wish they had made these upcoming sequels instead of the prequels 15 years ago, as Ford, Fisher and Hamill wouldn't have been so damn old. That's my biggest worry frankly, their age.
Grug
Veteran
I think people forget that the original movies were 'kids' movies anyway. Isn't the legend that the studio had a test screening and adults scored A New Hope abysmally - so Lucas paid out of his own pocket for a repeat screening (this time with kids) and they lost their damn minds?
Barry_Green
Moderator
Never heard that. I read Kurtz's book, and the way I remember it, the film was looking like a total disaster, over budget, people really thought it might sink 20th Century Fox. But, separately, Lucas and Kurtz went practically door-to-door to comic book stores, sci-fi conventions, wherever they could find actual fans and likely audience members, and showed them what they were doing -- they brought along cardboard cutouts of the characters, they talked about the story, the ships, anything that the actual paying customer might be interested in.
So on opening day, Wall Street was prepared to send Fox stock plummeting. But instead, there were massive lines around the block.
So on opening day, Wall Street was prepared to send Fox stock plummeting. But instead, there were massive lines around the block.
Batutta
Major Contributor
From what I've read, the first screening was just for the executives, who didn't know what to make of it. On the test screening, they made sure to pack it with kids and got an encouraging response. The original Star Wars films weren't 'kids' movies really. People got arms cut off. Han Solo shot someone in cold blood. There were images of charred corpses. Not saying they were Scorsese movies but a kids movie at that time was something like Willy Wonka. This was more aimed at teens and young adults I'd say. Kids liked it because it was cool and edgy. The Phantom Menace decidedly aimed for a younger audience.
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I worked for the person that headed Glen Glen Sound at the time of the first Star Wars. They did the sound for the first Star Wars. He said that at the time, no one had a clue what the first movie was about. It made no sense. They thought George was out of his mind. It would be a total failure.
So nothing has changed in the 37 years since then. Adults don't get it and George doesn't care. His whole life is about children. Be it his adopted children, the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, Star Wars, or his educational foundation.
These are not adult movies. Don't try to understand them or like them if you are over 18 years old. George wants to make movies for kids. Star Wars is Flash Gordon - that horrible, stupid TV serial that is unwatchable and kids loved.
So nothing has changed in the 37 years since then. Adults don't get it and George doesn't care. His whole life is about children. Be it his adopted children, the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, Star Wars, or his educational foundation.
These are not adult movies. Don't try to understand them or like them if you are over 18 years old. George wants to make movies for kids. Star Wars is Flash Gordon - that horrible, stupid TV serial that is unwatchable and kids loved.
Hidef1080
Well-known member
Im sure you're not alone there. A pretty obvious choice on the producer's part however, I'm just glad John Williams is back.
Really depends on the author and they run the gamut. The ones I like are more gritty, less like the prequels and more like Apocalypse Now set in the Star Wars Universe.
I'm pretty sure the old cast is just going to do cameo parts, like the wise advisers that the main characters go to for advice or get their missions from. Obviously we don't want to see Carrie Fisher in a bikini again. I"m sure there will be a new hottie in the cast.
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