Specific Microphone Questions

Z

-zach-

Veteran
I plan on shooting a feature this summer and I have some questions about mics.

First: I have used the search function and I've narrowed down my questions to just a few.

I'll be shooting mostly inside a library, and inside houses. The houses don't really create a problem for sound, since I can just shut anything making sound off and fix the problem. I will be shooting a fraction of it outside so my questions are

I think the Sennheiser ME67 will help me to get good sound. I'd like to work with this but

A) Is it enough
B) Do you need another mic?

But I also thought I would need a boom mic. I may or may not based on the answers here. I thought I would get the Oktava MK012A and use it with this boom rig:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=67815

It seems to work very well. My questions about the boom are:

A) Do I need it
B) Do I need to purchase the shotgun with this or is this sufficient.

Thanks for your help (hopefully) and if I didn't make anything clear enough I'll answer any questions you have.
 
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I am not sure about the quality of the Sennheiser mic but I would recommend a boom if you can have a dedicated operator for it. If not, I would recommend getting a boom stand to hold the mic in a similar fashion that a boom operator would.

I would always recommend getting another mic, shotgun or otherwise, if you can afford it. However, if you have to get by with one, in your situation, make it agood hypercardioid.

You should take these lines quoted from page 117 of Jay Rose's Producing Great Sound for Digital Video as a golden set of rules to live by:

1: Use a shotgun on a boom, over the actor's head and just out of camera range. If that's not possible...

2: Use a shotgun and boom, but from underneath and pointing up to the actor. If you can't use a boom ...

3: Plant a cardioid or shotgun on the set, where it'll cover dialog. If there's nowhere to hide a full size mic ...

4: Plant a lavaliere on the set. They're small and easily hidden. If you absoluteley can't plant a mic ...

5: Put a lav on the actor, and run cable down their pants leg. If their leg will be in the shot ...

6: Use a wireless lav, and hope that radio problems don't ruin the take.

These are steps you should take yourself through every time you record dialog.

John

EDIT- I think you can modify the "Use a shotgun" suggestion to "Use the preferred mic for your type of shot, whether it be shotgun or hypercardioid.
 
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John Froton said:
1: Use a shotgun on a boom, over the actor's head and just out of camera range. If that's not possible...
....
EDIT- I think you can modify the "Use a shotgun" suggestion to "Use the preferred mic for your type of shot, whether it be shotgun or hypercardioid.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting!

Okay... because I am a complete noob to mics and such,

Hypercardiod= the Oktava MK012A that I'm eyeballing
Shotgun= the Sennheiser ME80 shotgun (der)

From your post I gathered that both the shotgun and the Oktava would be useful on the set. If I go this way, would the shotgun mounted on the cam and the Oktava on the boom make sense? Is it possible to record both mics at the same time on different tracks?

Thanks for your help.

Edit
They don't actually sell the ME80 anymore. It's now the ME67 that I'm looking at.
 
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It is never really ideal to mount a mic on camera. Try and place the mic as close to the source as possible.

Generally it is a good idea to use a hypercardioid indoors and a shotgun outdoors. Shotguns can have issues with reflected sounds indoors. Some are better indoors than others, but typically experienced sound people use hypercardioids inside and shotguns outside.

The Oktava is very sensitive to handling noise, so you will need to be very attentive to handling and movement such as moving while on a boom pole.

I guess using multiple mics isn't a bad idea in that it can give you a backup track and help make sure that you don't lose sound to an unforseen issue.
 
Yes, it is possible to record two mics onto seperate tracks, and yes, you could use a hypercardiod on a boom and a shotgun on the camera. However, on top of a camera is rarely the ideal place for a microphone. Instead, either bring along an extra boom pole (and opperator) for additional coverage, or put the spare mic on a mic stand as a plant mic.

On the other hand, I would reccomend that you use the spare track to record dual mono rather than using it for a second mic. Split the boom mic onto both tracks, and lower one of the inputs 6dB. That way, you're covered in the event of momentary overmodulations.
 
SMuir said:
On the other hand, I would reccomend that you use the spare track to record dual mono rather than using it for a second mic. Split the boom mic onto both tracks, and lower one of the inputs 6dB. That way, you're covered in the event of momentary overmodulations.
Click to expand...

My first reaction to this was... overmodu-wha..?

But now I kind of get it. The DVX has 2 audio inputs, so, split the mic into both of those inputs and change the audio on one of the tracks to 6dB, so I'm covered in....

Wikipedia said:
Overmodulation is the condition that prevails in telecommunication when the instantaneous level of the modulating signal exceeds the value necessary to produce 100% modulation of the carrier.
Overmodulation results in spurious emissions by the modulated carrier, and distortion of the recovered modulating signal.
Overmodulation in the sense of this definition is almost always considered a fault condition. If defined as, the condition that prevails when the mean level of the modulating signal is such that peaks in the modulating signal exceed the value necessary to produce 100% modulation of the carrier, overmodulation is sometimes considered permissible.
Click to expand...

So I'm covered in case the microphone makes a mistake. Right?
 
-zach- said:
So I'm covered in case the microphone makes a mistake. Right?
Click to expand...

Right... the microphone.

Production sound can be pretty unpredictable at times. Sometimes a bit of sibbilance or a sneeze will sneak up on you, in which case that dual mono trick and/or a good set of limiters will keep things under control.
 
Zach you definately sound like a candidate for someone who needs to read Jay Rose's book that John quoted from. There is a lot to know and understand...a book's worth at a minimum :) Nothing wrong with being an audio freshman, we all were there once. But to really start wrapping your mind around what you are going to need, you will want to start with the book.

Luckily you have some time; start with the book, then post questions, then decide what gear to buy.

Good luck

PS- camera mounted mic are one of the biggest freshman no-no's and why so many amatuer films sound like crap.
 
wabbit said:
Good luck

PS- camera mounted mic are one of the biggest freshman no-no's and why so many amatuer films sound like crap.
Click to expand...

Okay. Will do. Thanks for the help so far.
 
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