Special Effect: Hitting someone with a car
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J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Re: Special Effect: Hitting someone with a car
Try shooting it backwards.
Try shooting it backwards.
J_Barnes
Veteran
Re: Special Effect: Hitting someone with a car
A suggestion: Don't.
Usually this effect is done physically, with a real person doing the stunt. But of course, it's likely that you don't have access to both a stuntman and a stuntdriver, so I'd suggest that you simply not do this.
Or just find an actor you don't mind killing if things go wrong.
You could put your camera in the car and have someone throw a dummy at the front as it's driving, but that's still completely dangerous and you won't find yourself making many films after your SUV goes crashing into a line of parked cars.
I have to admit that it's getting a little tedious advising people on safety issues that should be obvious to them. I think a lot of beginning filmmakers are overreaching their capabilities, and that can really just create more danger when they aspire to stunts, special effects, explosions, fire, falls, crashes, and other actions that present an inherrent impediment to the continuence of life.
We should create The 10-commandments of safety that every beginning filmmaker should adhere to.
A suggestion: Don't.
Usually this effect is done physically, with a real person doing the stunt. But of course, it's likely that you don't have access to both a stuntman and a stuntdriver, so I'd suggest that you simply not do this.
Or just find an actor you don't mind killing if things go wrong.
You could put your camera in the car and have someone throw a dummy at the front as it's driving, but that's still completely dangerous and you won't find yourself making many films after your SUV goes crashing into a line of parked cars.
I have to admit that it's getting a little tedious advising people on safety issues that should be obvious to them. I think a lot of beginning filmmakers are overreaching their capabilities, and that can really just create more danger when they aspire to stunts, special effects, explosions, fire, falls, crashes, and other actions that present an inherrent impediment to the continuence of life.
We should create The 10-commandments of safety that every beginning filmmaker should adhere to.
evil_edison
Active member
Re: Special Effect: Hitting someone with a car
I saw a great commercial once (an ad for safe driving I think) which ended with a disturbing shot of a car about to hit a young girl. The way they did it was as a lockdown where they filmed the girl running onto the street, then they filmed a separate plate with the car coming into frame. The two shots were composited together and while you did not see the actual collision you could see it was imminent and overall it was VERY effective. You could do something like that then cut to a reaction of a pedestrian and hear the collision instead of seeing it first hand. Otherwise, you definitely have to deal with a stunt person to make it believable.
I saw a great commercial once (an ad for safe driving I think) which ended with a disturbing shot of a car about to hit a young girl. The way they did it was as a lockdown where they filmed the girl running onto the street, then they filmed a separate plate with the car coming into frame. The two shots were composited together and while you did not see the actual collision you could see it was imminent and overall it was VERY effective. You could do something like that then cut to a reaction of a pedestrian and hear the collision instead of seeing it first hand. Otherwise, you definitely have to deal with a stunt person to make it believable.
evil_edison
Active member
Re: Special Effect: Hitting someone with a car
[quote author=J_Barnes link=board=news;num=1094712033;start=0#2 date=09/09/04 at 03:28:12]
We should create The 10-commandments of safety that every beginning filmmaker should adhere to.
[/quote]
Here's a few to get started:
1. Thou shalt not stand in a mud puddle whilst changing the bulb on thine 1K light
2. Thou shalt not film in the midst of oncoming traffic
3. Thou shalt not use guns
4. Thou shalt not covet thine neighbour's matte box
5. Thou shalt not ask Jarred about the best place to buy a DVX100a for under $1500
Okay, maybe those last two weren't about safety
[quote author=J_Barnes link=board=news;num=1094712033;start=0#2 date=09/09/04 at 03:28:12]
We should create The 10-commandments of safety that every beginning filmmaker should adhere to.
[/quote]
Here's a few to get started:
1. Thou shalt not stand in a mud puddle whilst changing the bulb on thine 1K light
2. Thou shalt not film in the midst of oncoming traffic
3. Thou shalt not use guns
4. Thou shalt not covet thine neighbour's matte box
5. Thou shalt not ask Jarred about the best place to buy a DVX100a for under $1500
Okay, maybe those last two weren't about safety
Re: Special Effect: Hitting someone with a car
Do it with editing and sound efx. Take a look at the opening scene of "Lawrence of Arabia" (the motorcycle crash). No need to kill somebody when a little time and imagination can do the job better.
dan
www.DVcameraRigs.com
Do it with editing and sound efx. Take a look at the opening scene of "Lawrence of Arabia" (the motorcycle crash). No need to kill somebody when a little time and imagination can do the job better.
dan
www.DVcameraRigs.com
J_Barnes
Veteran
Re: Special Effect: Hitting someone with a car
Thou shalt not write a scene that you have no idea how to achieve.
Thou shalt not ever ground lift any lighting equipment.
Thou shalt not be camera operator and truck driver at the same time.
Thou shalt not use fire anywhere or anyhow without supervision and professional assistance.
Thou shalt not ever use live ammunition.
Thou shalt not construct thine own explosive devices.
Thou shalt not attempt any "stunts" without stuntmen.
THou shalt not do anything to endanger your crew or cast.
Thou shalt not push your loads when using residental electric.
Thou shalt always use an ampmeter.
Thou shalt always put a gel in front of an open faced light.
Thou shalt not use 5k's under 8' cielings.
THou shalt not use smoke without first informing your neighbors.
Thou shalt not trust the police to regonize that your dummy guns aren't real.
And finally...Thou shalt not tussle with Barry Green regarding technical matters.
Thou shalt not write a scene that you have no idea how to achieve.
Thou shalt not ever ground lift any lighting equipment.
Thou shalt not be camera operator and truck driver at the same time.
Thou shalt not use fire anywhere or anyhow without supervision and professional assistance.
Thou shalt not ever use live ammunition.
Thou shalt not construct thine own explosive devices.
Thou shalt not attempt any "stunts" without stuntmen.
THou shalt not do anything to endanger your crew or cast.
Thou shalt not push your loads when using residental electric.
Thou shalt always use an ampmeter.
Thou shalt always put a gel in front of an open faced light.
Thou shalt not use 5k's under 8' cielings.
THou shalt not use smoke without first informing your neighbors.
Thou shalt not trust the police to regonize that your dummy guns aren't real.
And finally...Thou shalt not tussle with Barry Green regarding technical matters.
evil_edison
Active member
Re: Special Effect: Hitting someone with a car
[quote author=J_Barnes link=board=news;num=1094712033;start=0#6 date=09/09/04 at 07:43:34]
THou shalt not use smoke without first informing your neighbors.
[/quote]
This is my fave
[quote author=J_Barnes link=board=news;num=1094712033;start=0#6 date=09/09/04 at 07:43:34]
THou shalt not use smoke without first informing your neighbors.
[/quote]
This is my fave
Ernest_Acosta
Well-known member
Re: Special Effect: Hitting someone with a car
Okay, I've seen the reverse method, where the actor is in front of the car and the car is put in reverse with the driver holding down the brake. A person is looking from the side to make sure the back reverse lights are on. The director confirms with the driver that he is in reverse. The director calls action the car reverses about 15 mph and the person runs backwards onto the sidewalk. The shot is reversed in post and the speed is ramped up a bit. Add (foley) screeching of tires, screams, a thump and Shazam! You got the shot. That was the risk taking way because if the car is not in reverse or mechanics break down, then, well you know the conclusion. The safe way as the others posted is to put the camera on a tripod, say on the sidewalk looking towards the street. Make sure the tripod is firmly on the ground (use gaffers tape). Then have the actor run into the street. Use onlookers (out of the shot of course) and a street with little or no traffic (suburb residential street) to make sure there are no cars coming in either direction. You don't want your actor to run out into the street and then he really gets hit. Shoot the shot with the actor running into the street. Next, shoot the car coming by at the same spot the actor ran out to. You can shoot the car scene and have the driver brake abruptly or you can make the car continue out of the shot. In post you layer the car shot with the actor shot and wala! You can also cut to inside the car and have your wrestling budding throw his body on the hood of a stationary car. Cons: Bruises to his body and a bent out of shape hood 8).
Okay, I've seen the reverse method, where the actor is in front of the car and the car is put in reverse with the driver holding down the brake. A person is looking from the side to make sure the back reverse lights are on. The director confirms with the driver that he is in reverse. The director calls action the car reverses about 15 mph and the person runs backwards onto the sidewalk. The shot is reversed in post and the speed is ramped up a bit. Add (foley) screeching of tires, screams, a thump and Shazam! You got the shot. That was the risk taking way because if the car is not in reverse or mechanics break down, then, well you know the conclusion. The safe way as the others posted is to put the camera on a tripod, say on the sidewalk looking towards the street. Make sure the tripod is firmly on the ground (use gaffers tape). Then have the actor run into the street. Use onlookers (out of the shot of course) and a street with little or no traffic (suburb residential street) to make sure there are no cars coming in either direction. You don't want your actor to run out into the street and then he really gets hit. Shoot the shot with the actor running into the street. Next, shoot the car coming by at the same spot the actor ran out to. You can shoot the car scene and have the driver brake abruptly or you can make the car continue out of the shot. In post you layer the car shot with the actor shot and wala! You can also cut to inside the car and have your wrestling budding throw his body on the hood of a stationary car. Cons: Bruises to his body and a bent out of shape hood 8).
Re: Special Effect: Hitting someone with a car
Thanks for the advice not to do it. Not an option. This isn't a wacky student film or Pulp Fiction wanna be and I'm not a complete idiot. I will not endanger my actors or crew. I'm assuming technology and creativity will get us this shot.
What about using After Effects to achieve the shot?
What about locking down the camera and shooting two planes, substituting a dummy in the second shot and cutting to it at the last frame? Is it possible to get it to match up close enough?
Thanks
Thanks for the advice not to do it. Not an option. This isn't a wacky student film or Pulp Fiction wanna be and I'm not a complete idiot. I will not endanger my actors or crew. I'm assuming technology and creativity will get us this shot.
What about using After Effects to achieve the shot?
What about locking down the camera and shooting two planes, substituting a dummy in the second shot and cutting to it at the last frame? Is it possible to get it to match up close enough?
Thanks
Scottdvx100
Veteran
Re: Special Effect: Hitting someone with a car
You can use After effects or any effects program to do this. Some editing programs offer simple compositing.
If you shoot locked off you can shoot the most unpredicable plate (shot) first and then have the actor or rig the dummy to match. Just playback to the frames you'll make the switch. You can grease pencil your monitor to set position.
You can use After effects or any effects program to do this. Some editing programs offer simple compositing.
If you shoot locked off you can shoot the most unpredicable plate (shot) first and then have the actor or rig the dummy to match. Just playback to the frames you'll make the switch. You can grease pencil your monitor to set position.
Ernest_Acosta
Well-known member
Re: Special Effect: Hitting someone with a car
[quote author=filmsg link=board=news;num=1094712033;start=0#9 date=09/09/04 at 08:53:14]Thanks for the advice not to do it. Not an option. This isn't a wacky student film or Pulp Fiction wanna be and I'm not a complete idiot. I will not endanger my actors or crew. I'm assuming technology and creativity will get us this shot.
No insult intended.
What about using After Effects to achieve the shot?
What about locking down the camera and shooting two planes, substituting a dummy in the second shot and cutting to it at the last frame? Is it possible to get it to match up close enough?
Thanks[/quote]
This was my safe suggestion (compositing the shot) in two layers.
[quote author=filmsg link=board=news;num=1094712033;start=0#9 date=09/09/04 at 08:53:14]Thanks for the advice not to do it. Not an option. This isn't a wacky student film or Pulp Fiction wanna be and I'm not a complete idiot. I will not endanger my actors or crew. I'm assuming technology and creativity will get us this shot.
No insult intended.
What about using After Effects to achieve the shot?
What about locking down the camera and shooting two planes, substituting a dummy in the second shot and cutting to it at the last frame? Is it possible to get it to match up close enough?
Thanks
[/quote]This was my safe suggestion (compositing the shot) in two layers.
evil_edison
Active member
Re: Special Effect: Hitting someone with a car
The 2 plates solution is probably the best bet but if you are going to show the car actually making impact the problem is how the body/car react. To make it convincing, the body has to bounce over the car and the car needs to slow upon impact (it is, after all hitting a relatively solid object). There's no way I can think of to make that convincing with post effects and unless your dummy is very high quality you run the risk of it looking kind of campy. Bear in mind that Hollywood uses actual stunt men even though dummies would be a lot safer and cheaper so I'm guessing even the big guys haven't perfected this technique. The "reverse" method still doesn't solve the issue of seeing the collision because you are only getting the shot up to the moment before impact (unless it includes your actor rolling off the hood in reverse and THEN walking backwards). That being said, you can acheive the same result easier and safer with the locked-down 2 plate method. Then, as previously suggested, use some "creative editing" and sound design to create an implied collision. An audience will forgive you for not having the budget to run someone over, but they're less likely to forgive you for a bad effect. Besides, what you don't see is often more powerful than what you actually do.
The 2 plates solution is probably the best bet but if you are going to show the car actually making impact the problem is how the body/car react. To make it convincing, the body has to bounce over the car and the car needs to slow upon impact (it is, after all hitting a relatively solid object). There's no way I can think of to make that convincing with post effects and unless your dummy is very high quality you run the risk of it looking kind of campy. Bear in mind that Hollywood uses actual stunt men even though dummies would be a lot safer and cheaper so I'm guessing even the big guys haven't perfected this technique. The "reverse" method still doesn't solve the issue of seeing the collision because you are only getting the shot up to the moment before impact (unless it includes your actor rolling off the hood in reverse and THEN walking backwards). That being said, you can acheive the same result easier and safer with the locked-down 2 plate method. Then, as previously suggested, use some "creative editing" and sound design to create an implied collision. An audience will forgive you for not having the budget to run someone over, but they're less likely to forgive you for a bad effect. Besides, what you don't see is often more powerful than what you actually do.
Re: Special Effect: Hitting someone with a car
What is want is for the character to be thrown forward from the impact, and not bounce over the hood of the car. It'll take a SUV of some sort of coarse. So all we really need to see is the actor thrown forward and off frame as the car screaches to a hault. I'm thinking in this case a dummy won't look that bad since it's only going to be seen for a few frames after impact. Perhaps I can take these frames into photoshop and cheat the actor in one by one?
What is want is for the character to be thrown forward from the impact, and not bounce over the hood of the car. It'll take a SUV of some sort of coarse. So all we really need to see is the actor thrown forward and off frame as the car screaches to a hault. I'm thinking in this case a dummy won't look that bad since it's only going to be seen for a few frames after impact. Perhaps I can take these frames into photoshop and cheat the actor in one by one?
evil_edison
Active member
Re: Special Effect: Hitting someone with a car
Does it matter what angle you shoot it from? i.e. could you shoot it from the side?
Does it matter what angle you shoot it from? i.e. could you shoot it from the side?
J_Barnes
Veteran
Re: Special Effect: Hitting someone with a car
You might want to check into crash data if you can find any. Getting thrown forward in a pedestrian impact isn't very typical from what I understand, and usually people end up going straight under the car when the bumper is particularly high (as in an SUV).
I think the case where someone would be thrown forward would be where the car is already slowing to a stop but transfers the momentum on impact to the body, but again...it's all about where you intend to have the breaks slam.
There was a woman hit a couple of years ago here in a head on 60mph collision. She literally exploded with one of her limbs flying 60 feet away from the collision. Some of the body mass ended up behind the car, some forward, a lot to the sides.
You might want to check into crash data if you can find any. Getting thrown forward in a pedestrian impact isn't very typical from what I understand, and usually people end up going straight under the car when the bumper is particularly high (as in an SUV).
I think the case where someone would be thrown forward would be where the car is already slowing to a stop but transfers the momentum on impact to the body, but again...it's all about where you intend to have the breaks slam.
There was a woman hit a couple of years ago here in a head on 60mph collision. She literally exploded with one of her limbs flying 60 feet away from the collision. Some of the body mass ended up behind the car, some forward, a lot to the sides.
Re: Special Effect: Hitting someone with a car
While I'm totally in agreement with Barnesy, it depends on your movie? Is it absolute realism you are going for?
In real life people don't fly backwards through the air when they are shot. But it looks cool in the movies.
I'm still unclear of what exactly you intend. Is the car braking and the person is hit?
What is the main aspect of the shot? The person flying backwards?
There are many ways you could go about it.
While I'm totally in agreement with Barnesy, it depends on your movie? Is it absolute realism you are going for?
In real life people don't fly backwards through the air when they are shot. But it looks cool in the movies.
I'm still unclear of what exactly you intend. Is the car braking and the person is hit?
What is the main aspect of the shot? The person flying backwards?
There are many ways you could go about it.
J_Barnes
Veteran
Re: Special Effect: Hitting someone with a car
Yeah, I don't want to give the impression that you have to do things realistically...it's all about your style. Just suggesting that if realism is what you're going for, you might want to look into some crash data.
People also don't roll over the hoods of cars when they get hit in real life, it's just the least painful way for a stuntman to acomplish the feat...thus it's part of hollywood's laws of physics.
Yeah, I don't want to give the impression that you have to do things realistically...it's all about your style. Just suggesting that if realism is what you're going for, you might want to look into some crash data.
People also don't roll over the hoods of cars when they get hit in real life, it's just the least painful way for a stuntman to acomplish the feat...thus it's part of hollywood's laws of physics.
Re: Special Effect: Hitting someone with a car
Actually I HAVE hit someone with a car before and they flew forward about 15 yards. I was 16 and it scared the hell out of me. The guy ended up becoming a good friend strangely .
So yea. From the side. Car slowing down/slamming on brakes.
:
Actually I HAVE hit someone with a car before and they flew forward about 15 yards. I was 16 and it scared the hell out of me. The guy ended up becoming a good friend strangely .
So yea. From the side. Car slowing down/slamming on brakes.
:
Re: Special Effect: Hitting someone with a car
Sounds pretty easy.
I would be interested in helping out with the visual effects. If you would like to discuss more email me at
arcburnproductions@yahoo.com
Sounds pretty easy.
I would be interested in helping out with the visual effects. If you would like to discuss more email me at
arcburnproductions@yahoo.com