Sounds like somethings boiling up at gopro

[Kolor-Pikker]

The problem is not one of mechanics, but electronics processing, as ex1r777 above wrote 100mbits 10bit 4:2:2 is fairly taxing. The E-series P2 cards already have enough bandwidth to simultaneously record five AVC-I streams, and any sensor that can do 60fps at 720p can inherently do the same at 1080p because the sensor's sample rate is 60hz. In fact, the only difference between the RED Scarlet and Epic is electronics, but the Epic is capable of far higher frame rates. I don't have to tell you how much more the Epic costs though.... As well, top of the line film SLRs from 12 years ago already had the capacity to shoot 12~14 frames per second, but it took us over a decade to get to the same point with digital.

 

[Mickey G]

HPX250 is a 100mbits 10bit 4:2:2 camera. You can make any camera record 1080p 1000fps if you want to. The motion will look very slow but it will lack huge detail. These reel videos look wonderful when you combine super wide angle with cool actions but dont mix apples with oranges. Gopro is the best action cam in the market but it can't match the quality of hpx250, ex1, c100, f3 etc.

I’m not saying a GoPro is up to par with these higher-end prosumer video cameras but seeing it do 1080/60p (yes at a much lower quality, hence the price) when cameras at much higher price-points can not just makes me wonder why we haven't seen any variation of some of these features on these newer high-end prosumer video cameras. An EX1 is old tech but I just think 1080/60 should be standard by now (at least at a certain price-point).

I understand that an HPX250 is all around a much better camera as far as image quality, etc. but its also close to 15x the price of a GoPro so is should out perform a GoPro in all areas and IMO that includes 1080/60p.
As I said, I understand the GoPro is able to achieve 1080/60p video at a much lower quality then the video quality the 250 is putting out but considering the price difference I just can’t see why the 250 can’t have this feature as well. I mean the HVX came out like what 7 years ago with 720/60p...

Just seeing what RED, GoPro, even Panasonic with the GH3, hell even Apple with the iphone is able to do at ridiculous low pricepoints these days I just don’t buy that that the tech is not there to have these features in these higher-end cameras albeit at much higher quality as it should be.

I mean seriously when a $1200 GH3 and a $400 GoPro can do 1080/60p (yes at a lower quality but it still looks good) and a $15k C300 can not something just does not add up to me...

 

[LiamR]

I mean seriously when a $1200 GH3 and a $400 GoPro can do 1080/60p (yes at a lower quality but it still looks good) and a $15k C300 can not something just does not add up to me...

Hang on a second...

You're comparing 2 UN-RELEASED to the public cameras, to other cameras that are already on the market. Are the companies supposed to go back into the past and change it are they??

 

[Mickey G]

I don't however, understand why cameras like the HPX250 don't do 1080p/60fps, I do understand in some instances it's tecnological constraints and in some other instances they don't want to step on the shoes of other cameras they've made.

Agreed 100% I also think it has to with demand and who is going to make the move first.

In the action-cam market there is a high demand for higher frame-rates, whoever did 1080/60p and at least 720/120 first (at a reasonable price-point) was going to eat up the market. Sony released their action camera then GoPro answered back.

In the prosumer camera world (HPX250, EX1, etc) there is not a high demand for high frame-rates so I think the camera manufactures don’t think its worth the extra hassle to implement these features until they absolutely have to not because of any technical constraints in most cases. Just my opinion...

 

[Mickey G]

Hang on a second...

You're comparing 2 UN-RELEASED to the public cameras, to other cameras that are already on the market. Are the companies supposed to go back into the past and change it are they??

Ok the jury is still out on the actual quality of these features until the cameras are actually released but judging by the the quality of these cameras predecessors, I’m sure they will deliver (pure speculation of course..)

Now I’m not sure the development cycle of any of these cameras but if the tech was there for GoPro, Panasonic (stills division) and AF100, Sony (FS100), etc. to do 1080/60p (at least a version of this feature at the respective price-point) I’m sure the tech was there as recent as the development of the C100, C300, C500, 1DC, Sony PMW-150, etc. And if the hardware is capable just not implemented, we’ve all seen what RED can do with firmware updates...

 

[Postmaster]

When you look at Protune, it's amazing what GoPro can do with firmeware updates in that tiny box.

 

[ex1r777]

Well i won't comment anymore on if the companies are holding themselves back on purpose or if this is all about technical capabilities. I'll just say that the hero 3 reel looks cool but pause the video during the mountain biking segment and look at the image. It looks crap to my eye. There's no detail in that, nothing. Yes it's youtube compression but even without it i wouldn't expect magic. It's a tiny camera, covered by a plastic shell, and is advertised as being capable of 4k 15fps. There are cameras out there with turning fans inside. Why do you think they put a fan inside a camera? To piss people off with its sound?

4k is a marketing thing, along with 1080p60, or anything similar. If the image won't give a 'true' quality of the said spec, why put it there in the first place? The reason is simple; trying to make people fall for it. The current hype seems to be about resolution so they do it this way.

I wish we had 1080p30fps 12bit 444 cameras instead of this 4k nonsense tbh.

Nevertheless, Gopro is the king in the action camera market. Kudos to them again with this product.

 

[LiamR]

Ok the jury is still out on the actual quality of these features until the cameras are actually released but judging by the the quality of these cameras predecessors, I’m sure they will deliver (pure speculation of course..)

Now I’m not sure the development cycle of any of these cameras but if the tech was there for GoPro, Panasonic (stills division) and AF100, Sony (FS100), etc. to do 1080/60p (at least a version of this feature at the respective price-point) I’m sure the tech was there as recent as the development of the C100, C300, C500, 1DC, Sony PMW-150, etc. And if not well we’ve all seen what RED can do with firmware updates...

We all want to know the answers to these questions, trust me. But different companies have different outlooks and ways of getting there.
Your asking a question that not only applies to the 1080/60fps situation, but to almost every cameras situation.

 

[simonpwood]

GoPro are really pushing the envelope; especially with built in live streaming and those other features. Like BMC they have nothing to protect, so they can make their products as good as the hardware and software limitations will allow (there does not seem to be any 'crippling' with their products).

If GoPro were to get in on the S35 camera game they would design some sort of futuristic mega camera....

 

[Simon Shasha]

I mean seriously when a $1200 GH3 and a $400 GoPro can do 1080/60p (yes at a lower quality but it still looks good) and a $15k C300 can not something just does not add up to me...

A Canon executive's wallet adds up, I'm sure of that. The C300's (as well as C100's) lack of 60P @ 1080 at their price is pathetic.

 

[Mickey G]

I'll just say that the hero 3 reel looks cool but pause the video during the mountain biking segment and look at the image. It looks crap to my eye. There's no detail in that, nothing. Yes it's youtube compression but even without it i wouldn't expect magic. It's a tiny camera, covered by a plastic shell, and is advertised as being capable of 4k 15fps. There are cameras out there with turning fans inside. Why do you think they put a fan inside a camera? To piss people off with its sound?

4k is a marketing thing, along with 1080p60, or anything similar. If the image won't give a 'true' quality of the said spec, why put it there in the first place? The reason is simple; trying to make people fall for it. The current hype seems to be about resolution so they do it this way.

I wish we had 1080p30fps 12bit 444 cameras instead of this 4k nonsense tbh.

Nevertheless, Gopro is the king in the action camera market. Kudos to them again with this product.

Yes if you pause the image and pixel peep a $400 camera you will see the imperfections of the image but these cameras are designed to go places and record material that bigger cameras just can’t achieve. So if I have to give up some image quality and settle for 8-bit 4:2:0 sub-par 1080 to achieve certain shots then thats fine with me.

Aside from the fact that the GoPro is as small and cheap as it is, I’m still impressed by the quality. I’ve seen many projects shot with GoPros that engaged me in the story, any lack of detail or indiscrepancies in the image did not bother me in the slightest. I’m not saying that people should go off and shoot their next feature with a GoPro or a high budget commercial but I am saying the GoPro is a tool and a very capable image capturing device and is the right choice for many applications.

 

[NorBro]

I almost feel like all companies are not allowed to make a perfect, reasonably priced camera. One is always missing something..ND filters, color space, sensor size, MB rate, inputs/outputs, etc. etc.

I applaud GoPro for what they are doing and offering. They are listening to people (or maybe just their marketing team) and raising the bar. There is no doubt they will build a professional camera one day if they decide to expand their market/brand.

 

[Kolor-Pikker]

I agree, at $400 it's cheaper than many consumer handicams, but has some really impressive features for its size, for quick cuts and action scenes it's gonna be a lifesaver.

I almost feel like all companies are not allowed to make a perfect, reasonably priced camera. One is always missing something..ND filters, color space, sensor size, MB rate, inputs/outputs, etc. etc.

I feel ya. The closer you get to perfect, the faster the price skyrockets, even though the sum of the individual parts isn't typically worth the associated increase in asking price. For me, the Alexa would just about perfect, but at $90k for a starter kit w/o lenses... it's just gonna have to be my dream camera one rental at a time.