Sound Recorder advice / suggestions...

D

Dave Draper

Well-known member
So, I need a portable XLR sound recorder, and I have been doing so much research lately, that's it's almost been taking up every free moment I have, yet I'm not any closer to making a decision on which to settle with.

I was almost going to go with the Marantz PMD661, but have pretty much decided against it for the simple reason that you apparently have to send it BACK to Marantz if you ever need / want to upgrade the firmware. I don't like restrictions like that.

I'm giving myself a $1000 limit, and would prefer something compact.

What are everyone's recommendations, and why?

DD.
 
Do you have a mixer and what camera are you shooting on?

I started with the tascam DR-100, a sennheiser me-80, and a pair of sennheiser g3s with tram tr-50 lavs. You'll quickly discover that most recorders do not have enough gain to get your boom mic up where you want it to be. Also, feeding the boom mic phantom from the recorder will suck batteries down pretty quick. While the tascam has a nice dual battery system, feeding a mic phantom power still sucks the entire thing down in about 3 hours. If you're just feeding it wireless recievers then it's not that big a deal. Expect about 4 hours total from the DR-100.

A single channel of Sennheiser g3 will set you back around $600 with the stock me-2 mic (which is not that bad). That leaves you 400 for the recorder.

You could go with just a boom but that means another person to swing the boom and monitor the mic for positioning.

Boom pole, simple wind protection and shock mount can be had for about $300. To that add the mic(s). There is no single mic on a boom that will work for all situations. Your price range limits you even further. Many are using the Rode NTG-2 at around $250. That mic will serve you well outdoors but when used inside with reflective surfaces may result in some "twangy" reflections. Hypers are preferred for reflective environments and the Oktava MK-012 with hyper capsule is the lowest prices mic worth investing in and is rapidly getting a good reputation. It is prone to vibration noise so shock mount and attentive boom op (with monitoring) is needed for best results.

Both of these will have difficulty driving either the tascam (or the popular Zoom H4n) to -12 levels on all but the loudest dialog lines. It gets even worse when trying to record ambience although some get by using the recorder's internal mic(s).

A mixer will help greatly with the low level issues. If you just need to drive one condenser mic at a time, then you can get by with the Sound Devices MM-1 or MP-1. Remember that it's very important that the person swinging the boom have a way of monitoring what the mic is doing. The Sound Devices mixpre provides two channels.

You will also need a slate to provide a marker for syncing in post.

It get more complicated from here. If you're not really into doing sound, but have the need for quality sound, consider hiring a up and coming sound person for your shoots. Even newbies (like myself) quickly equip themselves with the necessary tools and can be had for as low as $150-200 per day.


Dave Draper said:
Sure. Mostly dialogue, Foley and ambience.

It will be for film, TV, interviews, etc.

DD.
Click to expand...
 
Dave,

I don't recollect if you mentioned what cam you are using. Most newer Panna or Sony cams will do a decent job of recording dialogue. If you can record to cam, I would think about getting a mixer first. SD mix-pre or SD-302 would be good choices, especially the 302 though it would blow your budget. If you do that, all you need is a cheap recorder that can take line-in input like the DR100. Many of the medium priced recorders are more oriented towards music and sell you features you don't need. You could get a Mix-Pre and a DR-100 for under $1000 and it will work well.

In any event, IMHO, get a better mixer and you will have better control whether you record to cam or whatever recorder box you buy.

Grant
 
It depends a bit on how many channels you want to record. The Edirol R-44 is a great beginner option (I still use it and I pay my bills doing sound). You can work with that one without a mixer and record 4 channels (eg one boom three lavs). If you want more then the Tascam DR-680 is a good option, 6 to 8 channels. But you won't be able to mix live because there's just one level adjustment knob. Then there's the Tascam HD-P1 which is only 2 channel but offers all you need for pro sound, i.e. timecode, good preamps. Next step up from these three is way up to pro level: Sound Devices recorders, Nagra, that new pro Tascam unit but I'm going astray here. I recommend the Edirol R-44. It's small, solid and reliable. Never let me down once in more than 2 years. However, to do proper film sound you'll need some sort of mixer one day because you're expected to create your own live mix.
 
I give big props to my new Tascam DR-680. 800.00 for 8 tracks. I got a modified version for 300.00 from Busman Audio. The pres are better than the R-44 out of the box, but I wanted to eliminate any hiss since I may record some nature stuff. Steve Oakley made a nice video about it. Let me look...

Steve's Review: http://steveoakley.net/template_permalink.asp?id=91

It's getting lots of love over on Taperssection.com too. Learn it. Live it. Love it.
 
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Mangler, I live in an area that rarely gets over 70 degrees. Humidity would be more of an issue for me up here in Humboldt county on the coast of Northern Cali near Eureka. No problems of any kind with the 680 for me. But I have only used my 680 a little. I don't suspect there will be any problems.
 
ggrantly said:
I don't recollect if you mentioned what cam you are using. Most newer Panna or Sony cams will do a decent job of recording dialogue. If you can record to cam, I would think about getting a mixer first. SD mix-pre or SD-302 would be good choices, especially the 302 though it would blow your budget. If you do that, all you need is a cheap recorder that can take line-in input like the DR100. Many of the medium priced recorders are more oriented towards music and sell you features you don't need. You could get a Mix-Pre and a DR-100 for under $1000 and it will work well.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I've sold all my "real" camcorders, and now work with the 5DMKII and 7D, so I've no way of recording proper audio anymore. This is why my first point of call should really be a good sound recorder.

Ideally, I'd like to get a Sound Devices 702, but can't afford one at the moment. I will, however, get one in the future, as well as a Sound Devices 302 mixer. I've heard many mixed opinions about the Mixpre. Some people love it, and others say it's not worth getting, and that it isn't even a mixer. If a Mixpre IS worth getting before an SD302, I'd certainly consider it.

But in the mean time, what I'm after is a really reliable, high-quality (in build and performance), portable, two channel sound recorder (not sure if I really want any more than two channels), with plenty of battery life, phantom power that doesn't require mains electricity, and whatever else you guys think I'd need for recording dialogue, Foley and ambience.

DD.
 
What's wrong with the MixPre? It's just a li'l ole 2 channel preamp/mixer with sweet optical limiters on the input and output. Has tone, 2 levels of low cut, clean gain and phantom. The only thing it can't do is pan channels partially. Each channel can be either Left, Center, or Right. What negative things are said about it?

Check out Oade Brothers for some nice, quiet(modified), 2 channel recorders like this Marantz: http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/PMD-661.html
 
Chadfish said:
What's wrong with the MixPre?
Click to expand...

I've just heard people complaining about its lack of features when compared to the 302, which isn't really a valid argument, seeing as the 302 is double the price (or more), and the next step up in SD's mixer range.

What, exactly, are the differences between the MixPre and the 302, anyway?

Chadfish said:
Check out Oade Brothers for some nice, quiet(modified), 2 channel recorders like this Marantz: http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/PMD-661.html
Click to expand...

Originally, I was tempted by the Marantz 661, but I don't like the idea of having to send it back to Marantz if I ever need / want to upgrade the firmware. Just feels too restrictive.

DD.
 
I use the Marantz PMD-661 and it has always impressed me and never let me down(knock on wood). I get around 6 hours record time (I always buy good batteries) running wireless lav receivers into it and about 4 1/2 when running my shotgun that requires phantom. My shotgun mic is a Sennheiser MKH416t model not the typical MKH416p. It sounds like I run into less rf interference with the t power but I think I am using more power b/c I am having to convert the power from phantom 48. Anyway the battery life is more than sufficient for me as I can always find a time within a five hour span of shooting to quickly swap out 4 AA batteries. I have considered getting the Oadie bros mod. I know that was a big deal with the PMD660 (previous generation) but I'm not sure if it is as necessary with this one. It already has a low noise floor and I'm happy with the pres but often times I rent a mixer. I couldn't find any field recorders with a lower noise floor without jumping up to the sound devices models. It's lightweight, well built, feels professional (aluminum faceplate, heavy duty plastic, etc...), and I have never, ever had anything but compliments with the sound. Recently shot a cooking show with two canon Dslr's as b-cams and an HD Panasonic. The Marantz never gave me any worries, they are not newbies to the industry. It's nice to have equipment that doesn't stress you out. Oh, and in regards to the above post, I prefer the 302 b/c i can select t power instead of p for my shotgun but I agree that the MixPre is top notch. The MixPre price is amazingly low for the quality in my opinion. Now if only I could find a wireless system with the same price to quality ratio...
 
I have a Marantz PMD661. I've never heard that about the firmware.

However, it's a very simple device. It has high quality preamps. I think ten years for now it will still be a very nice unit without any modifications. It already works very well, and I don't feel it's missing any software features.

My recommendation (feel free to disagree), would be to base your decision on the features, the quality of the preamps and the noise floor. These devices really aren't that complicated when you get right down to it.
 
Korg D888, reason why, it runs about $600-800. I have one and its great, it has 8 xlr and trs inputs, Its a portable recorder as long as you have DC power, it may be a restriction but it is still portable. But with those 8 inputs they each get their own channel strip. On each each channel strip there is a 3 band EQ, with that 3 band EQ lies an effects potentiometer. It also has a fine resolution large fader. One last thing it comes with is 10 built in effects, an 80GB hard drive built in, a fire-wire port to import the recordings to your computer quick and easy, and also gives phantom power!


KC.
Studio Sound Design
http://studiosoundesign.com
 
StudioSoundDesign said:
Korg D888, reason why, it runs about $600-800. I have one and its great, it has 8 xlr and trs inputs, Its a portable recorder as long as you have DC power, it may be a restriction but it is still portable. But with those 8 inputs they each get their own channel strip. On each each channel strip there is a 3 band EQ, with that 3 band EQ lies an effects potentiometer. It also has a fine resolution large fader. One last thing it comes with is 10 built in effects, an 80GB hard drive built in, a fire-wire port to import the recordings to your computer quick and easy, and also gives phantom power!


KC.
Studio Sound Design
http://studiosoundesign.com
Click to expand...

Well here's the "Why not".

It only records 44.1/16. You will have to transfer all your files over the USB port to get them out. and then there is this

"None of the EQ, effects sends, or fader moves affect the recorded signal. This is what makes the D888 so great: use it to capture tracks before they go to the main house mix." From the EQ review.

So while all the stuff about FX etc is just bunk your location recording - you don't want any of that. You do want to use a little EQ sometimes and you certainly want to be able to set levels.

Also what the OP has been talking about was over the shoulder gear and this most certainly does not fit that bill.
 
OP,

THe MixPre is a fantastic little mic pre that has some very limited mixer functions and a bunch of handy production sound goodies and is built like a tank. It runs 5+ hours with Phantom power at 48v feeding two mics. Should be a bunch longer if you don't need phantom power or only are using a single mic.

It sounds great has a fantastic limiter, a good roll off, tone, a slate mic, -10 and +4 line outs.
What it doesn't have that some would like is a Line level in and a Mic level out, an adjustable meter, more resolution on the meter, and a sweepable pan.
 
Dave Draper said:
Unfortunately, I've sold all my "real" camcorders, and now work with the 5DMKII and 7D, so I've no way of recording proper audio anymore. This is why my first point of call should really be a good sound recorder.

Ideally, I'd like to get a Sound Devices 702, but can't afford one at the moment. I will, however, get one in the future, as well as a Sound Devices 302 mixer. I've heard many mixed opinions about the Mixpre. Some people love it, and others say it's not worth getting, and that it isn't even a mixer. If a Mixpre IS worth getting before an SD302, I'd certainly consider it.

But in the mean time, what I'm after is a really reliable, high-quality (in build and performance), portable, two channel sound recorder (not sure if I really want any more than two channels), with plenty of battery life, phantom power that doesn't require mains electricity, and whatever else you guys think I'd need for recording dialogue, Foley and ambience.

DD.
Click to expand...

The Nagra LB is a little cheaper than the SD 702 in the UK if you are getting close, but not quite.

But these two are streets ahead of anything else I can think of.

I think, if money is tight, I would get a Fostex FR-2LE or a Tascam HD-P2 to use until you can afford the Nagra or Sound Devices unit, And when you can afford it, you can keep the cheaper recorder as a back-up machine.

I wrote a review of the LE for LineUp magazine when it cam e out and you can read the pdf of my review HERE.

I used the original FR-2 (my review is HERE) for several years before I upgraded to my Nagra VI a couple of years ago.
 
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