Sound Quality in movies

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Derrick_SA

Veteran
Hi there, try and understand what I am asking here, since I most probably will be explaining it like a monkey's uncle!

How do the hollywood people get there dialog to sound well like the movies ?

Anyone have any tutorials or advice on "tuning" the sound to sound like that ?

Thanks for everyones time!
Derrick
 
Re: Sound Quality in movies

1. They use good mics
2. They use ADR to re-record the dialogue. The actors lip sync in a noise free enviornment.
 
Re: Sound Quality in movies

ADR is a last resort, and only used if necessary. The production sound mixer makes every effort to get the best possible dialogue recorded on production. Once it gets to sound editorial, it goes to a dialogue editor, and if there is any ADR that needs to be done, it is taken care of then. From there is goes to a dialogue pre-dub, and then the final mix. This is where the dialogue is really smoothed out, and made to sound really good.

-Dave
 
Re: Sound Quality in movies

I get good sound, but they somehow tweak it to sound different to "reality" ?

thanks,
derrick
 
Re: Sound Quality in movies

Lots and lots o cash. ;D

To get theatrical quality sound you need experienced and talented people, VERY expensive equipment, and lots of pre and post production work on sound.

From independent to big budget films they have a location sound dept of at least 2, usually more, that have years of necessay experience to learn the craft of sound gathering. They are involved in pre-production decisions and prep.

The location equipment they use is in total around $100,000 (the mixers I worked under had about that much, sometimes less, sometime more).

Lastly, despite all the best efforts, ADR is used in pretty much every major film (Titanic was over %75 ADR). They also put alot alot of money and time into sound design for the final edit (the LOTR DVD's have really good extras on post sound).

:D All that being said, you can still put together acceptable audio on a more modest budget. Just don't expect perfect results; the money they spend is not wasted.

Start with this book.

http://www.dplay.com/book/pgs2e/index.html

It will get you up to speed on production sound basics. The next step is getting the right equipment. You don't need $100,000 of equipment (a modest $6000 will get you a nice starting kit) but if you cut too many corners here your sound will suffer dramatically. Then you need a minimum sound crew of two. These are actual sound people, not just some PA's you hand a boom pole and mixer.

I work mainly in ENG productions but occassionally will work a small budget film. It's not my specialty but I have finished production on a few full length pictures for about $10,000.

If the budget can't afford even that then I point them to several local schools where they can pick up a student looking to get started who will work for less money.

Hope that helps, definately get Jay Rose's book.

Good luck.
 
Re: Sound Quality in movies

thanks for the reply appreciate it! I will purchase this book to start of with thanks.

But I still believe there is a few tricks and tweaks, that can be pulled of with something like Adobe Audition. Maybe I'm just a optimist hie hie.

Thanks,
Derrick
 
Re: Sound Quality in movies

If you are working the post stage than yeah that is an excellent book too.

BTW, if you are buying his book thru Amazon I remember him saying he gets an extra buck or two (you pay the same) if you follow the links to amazon from his site (www.dplay.com). He gets less then 3 bucks per book sold which is criminal considering how much great advice there is in these book.

Also look around his site, lots of helpful advice and fun audio stuff there.
 
Re: Sound Quality in movies

[quote author=Derrick_SA link=board=audio;num=1108584259;start=0#5 date=02/16/05 at 14:13:58]thanks for the reply appreciate it! I will purchase this book to start of with thanks.

But I still believe there is a few tricks and tweaks, that can be pulled of with something like Adobe Audition. Maybe I'm just a optimist hie hie.

Thanks,
Derrick[/quote]


You are being an optimist. There is a reason it's not an industry standard for audio work.

-Dave
 
Re: Sound Quality in movies

Thanks for the link wabbit. will buy it via his site.

Now the term audio sweetining has gotta have a few tricks. I will find out and return either empty handed, or maybe a minor trick or two.

- Derrick
 
Re: Sound Quality in movies

As everyone else has said, there is a huge budget and a lot of work and experience that goes into a Hollywood soundtrack... but the first place to start is "garbage in... garbage out", meaning if you don't have good sound to start with you 'aint gonna' have good sound after you tweak it.

For the sake of THIS discussion, great sound is simple. You wouldn't have asked the question if you were part of a multi-person production team or had extensive experience... so to distill this down to the most basic advice:

GET YOUR MIC AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO THE SPEAKER'S MOUTH.

That's why people use boom poles, lavs, and ADR... ALL of those mic solutions do ONE thing... they get the mic CLOSE. Like Dave said, ADR is a last resort... but part of the reason it sounds like it does is 'cause the mic is so close (and there are no outside noises.)

If you have a DVX then you're more then halfway there. Do a search on this forum and try out one of the cheap, phantom powered mics for your cam (sub-$200)... NOT a shotgun (at this price)... and get that mic CLOSE... I'll bet you'll be surprised at how good it will sound.

For good sound mics shouldn't be further then 3' away... and ALL built-in cam mics suck at any distance.
 
Re: Sound Quality in movies

Hi thre MATT, thanks for the message.

I get very clean good audio with the help of some Sony Mic's.

But when you listen to the sound, it always sounds "real life" if that makes sense.

I'm looking for the "movie" sounding dialog, I don't know how to explain (english is my second language). They most probably tweak certain freq. in a sound editor or something like that, or am i looking in the wrong place !!!.

Thanks,
Derrick
 
Re: Sound Quality in movies

I will take a swing Derrick.

Assuming your mics were in close and you controlled the environmental noise, you might be hearing the results of a cheap microphone. There are lots of things that can go wrong with location audio which is why it's best left to the professionals or at least an educated layman.

As Matt said post does very little to improve location audio ommissions. You could try adding some mid-range presence peak to the dialog. That can add some subtle richness to the voices but won't make a cheap mic sound like a professional one.

Also, if those's Sony mics you used were lavs you might be hearing a result of no ambient noise. Lavs pick up very clean dialog that works for interviews and talking heads but sounds empty in drama. Mixing in some room tone, reverb, and foley can round out your mix.

All this is just guessing, maybe if you posted a short clip of your audio, we could be of more help.
 
Re: Sound Quality in movies

I think you are right, over the weekend I will play with mixing in some ambient sound, and fool around with the EQ, as soon as I have something I will post, but for now I am going to sleep since it is midnite now in South Africa.

Let's speak again 2morrow.

THANKS !!
Derrick
 
Re: Sound Quality in movies

Derrick,

You should listen to Dave, Matt and Wabbit, these guys know what they're talking about. I want to pick up on a point that Wabbit made though. After reading a few posts like yours, I don't necessarily think it's the dialog track that's throwing you (although it very well may be) but rather how the dialog track sounds all by itself.

The more I deal with audio and video, the more I realize what an incredible processor our brains are. We can "auto white balance" and adjust our "irises" on the fly, we can have large DOF or shallow if we want it and can perform a perfect rack focus whenever we want. Great visual processing we have (thanks Yoda). Well, we also have incredible audio filters built in. The shear act of recording will show you that. I remember recording some surveillance audio once using a parabolic dish. If I put on headphones I could make out the conversation fine, I had to strain a bit, but I had it. Recording it so that you could understand it however, was an absolute nightmare (this was pre-digital, analog notch filters and such - man between this and realizing I have a 25 year old TV, I'm really starting to feel old). The reason it was a nightmare was because the filter available to us was no where near as sophisticated as the filtering system we all have between our ears. What does this have to do with anything? Well in a round-a-bout sort of way, it brings us to sound design.

The world is a noisy place.

We often don't realize this because we are so used to filtering out unwanted sound so that we can focus on the sounds that we want to pay attention to. But the sounds don't go away, they're just out of focus if you will. If you ever have the opportunity to stand in a real soundproof room (called an anechoic chamber) you will realize just how "weird" silence is. Go into a quite room, a room you think is silent, close your eyes and listen. You might be amazed at what you hear. Then talk a bit and listen to how your voice sounds. Do this at various parts of the room. Next time you're out, take some time to just listen to the world around you. You will definitely be amazed at what you hear.

You should try to read some books or articles on sound design. Mix magazine usually has a good one or two a month. You can't believe how many tracks go into each and every scene. Now if done right, you probably won't even notice most of them because of the way your brain focuses on the important sounds. But, and here's the point, you WILL notice if they're not there.

So I would do this. Get the dialog so that it's basically right. By this I mean that it's clear and present and natural sounding. The forget about it for a bit and work on creating a real sound mix room tone, foley, background sounds, anything you can think of within reason. Then add a touch of reverb (or more than a touch if your scene is in a cathedral - although still not as much as you might think unless you are going for an effect). Listen to that for a bit and see how that sounds. You may find that some of your sounds are in conflict and it has become difficult to understand the dialog. Adjust levels. Also look at your eq, you might have to adjust one or more of the other tracks so that they aren't stepping on your dialog or other backround tracks. You get the idea. Also don't be afraid to make some of the tracks so soft that you can barely make them out, after all that's how it is in life. I think if you go through this process you will start to hear that your movie sounds more like a movie. Now don't get me wrong, it's not going to sound like it would if you hired a pro recordist and did your post at Skywalker ranch, but it will probably sound much better than what you currently have.

Then once you get a taste for it, you'll want to start buying audio gear. LMFAO!!!!!!!!!

Matt
 
Re: Sound Quality in movies

Thanks MattC,

I appreciate your time, I will experiment, and give feedback on what my attempts and research teaches me!

Thanks for everyone in this forum for giving and helping with your talents!

It helps us beginners to become better and better every day !!

- Derrick
 
Re: Sound Quality in movies

I'm gonna' jump on the bandwagon that says you probably need a different mic... the sooner the better. If you get a good condenser running phantom power with a full, detailed sound... you'll be 80% of the way there.

I watched Raiders of the Lost Ark the other day and I was stunned at how quiet much of the sound track was... It was like ADR voices and well-timed sound-effects... so much so that I had to laugh at it even though I love the movie.

The absolute first thing you need is a full sounding mic... which doesn't even need to cost much, but it's gotta' have a natural bass (not rolled off) if you want the rich sound of male voices that you hear in the movies.

I guess you're at the tip of the iceberg and I'm a little hesitant to tell you how much mass is beneath this tidbit of advice. I just think if you plugged something like an Oktava into your DVX that an hour of playing and talking (with headphones on) would clear up a lot of your questions.
 
Re: Sound Quality in movies

Yeah, mics like the mc-012 (or mk-012) and the Audio Technica 3031 are pretty darn cheap for the sound you get out of 'em.

A 3031 is a cardioid only and the Oktava is a modular system so you can start with my favorite capsule, the hypercardioid... Depending on the Sony mics you're using, you'll be blown away. If you've got one of those $100-ish Sony jobs then you're gonna' have to pick your jaw up off the floor when you hear the difference.

Through all of this I'm assuming you have a DVX? You need phantom and a decent audio section for this to work. If you gotta' DVX then this will all prove true.
 
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