Sound In A Perfect World

T

twointhemorning

Member
Hey, I know this is probably one of those questions that can't really be answered because it's all about the circumstance and recording conditions, but -

How do I get the most adequate and CONSISTENT sound from recording with the ol' oktava (on a boom with bbg and shockmount) directly into the dvx100? How should the presets be set (where the audio channel levels should be set) and anything else in-camera I need to do (like what level should the camera volume be set for headphones?). I know I'd need a mixer and proper mic placement to get consistent sound, but, just treat it as a hypothetical.

Also, when it comes time to edit (in vegas), what are the tricks and tools (compression/gate/limiter/etc) to make all the dialogue as level as possible, with the least amount of hiss (from cable or otherwise), etc. Yeah, I know it's about using a lot of different tracks to build a good soundtrack, and having a good ear, but I just wanted to know how to treat ONE track as best as possible.

Well I know this is an annoying question because there are so many variables, but I just want to know how to get specific things as good as possible, and then build upon it. I have problems with recordings that are quiet, but obviously if I boost the volume, there's considerable hiss, which might be the cables, but who knows.

Blah blah blah. Thanks guys in advanced. I've learned a lot from you guys over the years and am now gonna try to put it to use hopefully. Trial and error time.

Andy
 
twointhemorning said:
Also, when it comes time to edit (in vegas), what are the tricks and tools (compression/gate/limiter/etc) to make all the dialogue as level as possible, with the least amount of hiss (from cable or otherwise), etc. Yeah, I know it's about using a lot of different tracks to build a good soundtrack, and having a good ear, but I just wanted to know how to treat ONE track as best as possible.
Click to expand...

Well, the first "trick" to getting a single track of dialog clear in post, is actually to use several tracks. Checkerboard the dialog (so that whenever their's a cut in the audio, the next clip is on a different track). This lets you crossfade clips easily to smooth transitions shot to shot.

High pass filter to remove rumble is usually a good fix. EQ and general Noise Reduction are my next two steps which, as you might imagine, varies greatly.

http://www.amazon.com/Dialogue-Editing-Motion-Pictures-Invisible/dp/0240809181

This is a great book on what I think you're after. It works in Pro Tools, but the ideas are essentially the same for Vegas.

Noise can get on the track in a lot of ways... Refrigerators, hum on the mic cable, preamp noise, levels just set too low (sound mixers on set ride levels continuously because of this, but always keep an eye on them on the camera if you're having to go without). Try experimenting when you're not on a shoot to isolate the issue if this is a common problem.
 
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It is a common gripe of mine (as he steps on his soapbox) that indie filmmakers have the erroneous idea that having a mic is enough. They spend hours setting up their camera and lighting and then about 30 seconds on the sound ("test one - two - three; okay it's good...") before they start shooting. Production sound and audio post are two art-forms that are sadly neglected by most indie filmmakers, probably because they can't see it; everything becomes about "the shot" once they get the camera in their hands or get the footage into the NLE.

There is no "best setting" that will allow you to "set it and forget it." Do you select one focus or one lighting scheme and "set it and forget it?" When it comes to capturing great production sound a professional boom-op is indispensable. S/he selects the appropriate mic for the specific situation and then handles it with great skill. That's why production sound mixers and boom-ops get paid well; they are usually long standing teams (sometimes with a cable wrangler) who pull from years of experience and work their gear with amazing expertise. They always record audio to an external recording device. So you should spend an appropriate amount of time preparing for the audio portions of your shoot as well as the visual.

A simple way to remove hiss is to use a low-pass filter. Start at about 10k and slowly work down until it starts affecting the dialog. Noise reduction plug-ins do the same job, sometimes better, sometimes worse. SoundSoap ($100) is a decent low budget noise reduction plug-in. Izotope RX ($280) has been getting great reviews and is going to be one of my next purchases. (I already have SoundSoap Pro and Pro Tools DNR/BNR). None of this is a cure-all. Fixing crappy production sound is trying to make the proverbial silk purse out of a sows ear. Yeah, it sounds passable or even okay, but it will never sound great.

The best way of smoothing out the volume - which is how my peers and I do it - is to automate the volume and EQ heavily. Compressors, limiters and such sound artificial and can sometimes create more problems than they solve.

The way you record quiet things without extraneous noise is to record them in a very quiet room with gear that has extremely low self-noise, both of which are fairly expensive propositions.

The Purcell dialog editing book Gohanto mentioned is excellent. So is Vanessa Aments "Foley Grail" and Sonnenschiens "Sound Design". However, book knowledge is never enough; you have to put in the time, pay your dues, however you want to put it. You also need the proper tools. I'm not saying to spend tens of thousands, but there are some tools you do need and you shouldn't skimp on the cost. At the least you should know the capabilities of your budget audio gear inside and out, its short-comings and capabilities at least as well as your camera, which for most indie types - with the exception of the mic - is their audio gear.
 
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I'll concur with both Gohanto and UncleBob but I'll be even more blunt: There are NO standard settings or presets that will give optimum results ... NONE! Consider your question of levels ... I have a voice that projects pretty well ... my day job is presenting lectures in an adult training environment where I have to sound natural and unstrained and yet be perfectly clear and audible in the back of the room and I also have professional experience as both voice-over talent and as a radio on-air personality. The level settings you'd use if you were recording me doing a standup would probably be radically different from those you'd use if you were recording an interview with a high-school homecoming queen. "What are the best settings?" is a nonsense question if the context isn't known.

Tricks and tools to use routinesly to get best sound? Not really. We have wonderful tools available today but I believe that the majority of those tools are there to solve problems. The primary objective always needs to be to make the original recording in such a manner that it has the fewest problems that need to be solved.
 
Amen to that, Steve!

Just because you have a hammer and a saw doesn't mean you can build a house, even if you have the blueprints.

Those "tricks" that everyone wants to know about were discovered and are used by professionals who are experienced "contractors". Professional production sound mixers and boom-ops use a wide variety of mics for specific situations; long shotguns, short shotguns, cardioids, super-cardioids, hyper-cardioids and varying types of lavaliers. They carefully choose their recorders, mixers and pre-amps with an ear to self noise and accuracy, how easy they are to use in the field and how much abuse they can take. They are very particular about which headphones they choose. They know the script as well as the director and the talent, and pay attention to the blocking sessions and how the actors deliver their lines. And by the way, the boom-op has one of the hardest jobs on the set; s/he has be silently mobile, get the mic as close to the talent as possible, keep it properly aimed at whichever actor is speaking, keep it out of the shot, prevent it from casting shadows and not be seen in a window or other reflective surface. At the same time the PSM is adjusting levels while the cable wrangler is silently feeding and retracting cable for the boom-op.

So just owning a shotgun mic and having it perched on the end of a boom-pole with a foam windscreen (which is usually handed it to whichever PA isn't busy) doesn't mean you will get good sound.
 
Just echoing what everyone here is saying. The best way to get good sound is to have someone there who knows sound.

Even if you can't afford the gear, having a dedicated person who can monitor and adjust levels is key.

There is no bigger tip off to low quality production than bad sound. There is pro indie, and then amateur indie. The difference is often found in the audio.
 
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