Sound for concert

J

jax_rox

Well-known member
Every 6 months I film a singing school recital. Its not the most exciting thing in the world, but it helps pay the bills.
The problem I face is that the owner is fairly cheap, he employs a cheap sound guy who really doesn't seem to know what he's doing and whilst the FOH sound is okay (not great, but passable), ive attempted to take sound from the desk five different ways at the past few concerts and each time the sound has come out terrible. Once, I just got no sound at all, once I got backing track only and it sounded like a compressed mp3 being played over the phone, once I got backing track and vocals but sounded like a compressed mp3 being played over the phone, once I got vocals only and once everything was just ridiculously over-modulated.
Luckily, I always have the backup of putting a mic in front of a speaker, so I get something useable. The problem with this is, its not the greatest of quality and generally vocals will over-modulate whenever the singer starts to sing powerfully, the backingtrack/vocal mix isn't great, and the overall sound has very little low-end.
This time, I've gotten everyone's backing tracks and I'm going to try and mix the vocals/backing track from the camera with the backing tracks that I've been provided.
The only problem with this is that only half the performers on the night used backing tracks, the other half using live acoustic guitar or piano.
I've been trying to think of ways to overcome the problem and get half-decent sounding audio, but I just don't know what to do.
Short of shelling out copious amounts of money on an expensive mic, or a mixing desk, is there any way I can get the audio sounding good?
 
...where to start.
The backing vocals are not going to do you that much good if you don't get a clean singer only feed, and that can probably only come from the board. You will have one hell of a time trying to sync them and I kind of suspect that you don't have a lot of sound background which isn't going to make it any easier.

The problems from the board, I suspect, are not really the sound guys fault. Well some probably are. But YOU have to know what you need and check to make sure your getting it. His job is to get some sound into the speakers, not provide you with a great track. Even if he were very interested in getting you great tracks it may not be possible. His needs are not close to yours. He may be pulling out a lot of lows to compensate for a boomy room. Hes not going to make it sound terrible so that you get a better recording.

So what to do. You could mic the speakers. If you do it right it shouldn't be too bad but it will have whatever EQ etc on it from the board. You can take a feed from the board, but you want direct outs if he has them so you bypas whatever he's doing to the tracks. How practical that is depends on how many mic's, if he has direct outs and you possibly needing a mixer to get the tracks down to two.
You could also just mic the room. A lot depends on what the room sounds like, if there is one mic or if everybody is using a different one. And what kind of mic's they are using. If they have a tone of cheap wireless mics (I can't tell you how often that is the case) your kind of hosed because the just sound BAD.

Your board feed problems seem to be two fold. First the over modulated issue is on you. Your taking the wrong level into your camera. You need to deal with input matching and levels into your camera. The total blow out sounds like you were feeding a mic in with a line out, or poss a +4 line out to a -10 in. Either way that is something you need to check and deal with. Wrong mixes you need to check but the sound guy needs to fix. He obviously wasn't assigning all the tracks to your outs. But the on you part is that he is not listening to what you are getting so you have to notice and check that you are getting what you need.

So What are the audio in's on your camera? What are you asking the guy to provide? How are you connecting to the mixer? How is he routing the sound to you? Aux buss, sub outs? Do you know what kind of mixer is being used?
In the end though you will need to get direct outs probably.

Now if there is only one stand mic and all the kids go up to that and sing you could slap your mic up with that one and take to vocals direct.
 
As Noiz says, the FOH guy's job (however capable or incapable he may be) is to get the sound to the people, not the video guy, so you're going to have to take matters into your own hands.

I think you're either going to have to mic instruments and vocalists yourself or split the lines coming in to the board via the direct outs (if the board has them, otherwise use something like this ) and run your own mixer.

That said, as someone who is largely an FOH mixer, I see it as common courtesy to supply the video crew with whatever feeds they need, but I've also got the luxury of good gear that makes that very easy, whether the video guys need a simple mono mix of the event or a full multi-track recording.
 
Last edited:
Well I have the backing tracks, and I do have some of the backing track in the audio I have from micing the speaker, so I'm just going to try and see what I can do with it.
One year, I did try recording straight into the camera, but its a 2 camera shoot and the camera which is closer to the sound desk has the mic on the speaker giong into it, while the other camera is too far away to run cables the whole way down.
So, I've tried using a MiniDisk, I've tried using a MicroTrack, and I've tried using a laptop to get the audio out of the desk, each time to no avail.
I have been monitoring the audio which comes out of the desk as much as I can, and I told him I needed vocals which he put in, and then I told him I needed a bit louder and then it ended up being over-modulated ridiculously. Unfortunately, they don't ever have a proper soundcheck, so I can't really get it right in soundcheck, and when the shows on I'm a little busy trying to film the thing.
However, the one year we did have a soundcheck with one of the performers, I got the sound ocming in perfect into the recorder, and so i left. but when I checked it later, I had perfect soundcheck audio and terrible show audio.
I have been micing the speakers, but it generally ends up in a very toppy mix which over-modulates when ever anyone starts to sing loud.
There's generally at least three vocal mics, plus any instrument mics, which tends to be one or two guitars, but we have had a couple of full bands in the past.
I don't think I was taking the audio in on the wrong level, but I can't say that with absolute certainty. The only thing is that at first the audio was probably at an acceptable level, it just sounded really bad - it sounded like a mobile phone video uploaded to youtube. Then I told him about it and he changed a couple things and I ended up getting majorly over-modulated audio.
On my camera I have two XLR-ins, but in the past I've used recorders which have had either 1/8" line in or 1/4" line in.
We've tried coming out of the Line Outs on his desk into the recorder and we've gotten no sound at all.
I'm not sure what he was coming out of last time, but at least there was some audio.
The problem with his gear is that you can never be too sure what he's going to have because he borrows it on the weekends from a sound company that he does a little bit of work with. So, the gear that he brings is basically what he can get. It's always enough to cover the needs of the show, but in terms of types of microphones and desks etc. it can vary form show to show.
I basically need everything. Vocals + whatever backing the vocalist is using whether it be a track or a guitar or a piano.
Generally, most of the kids sing from the one microphone, but they're not always using a stand and can move around, plus there's often acoustic guitars or pianos or in some cases full bands which are miced and I obviously can't set up my own mics for everything which gets miced for FOH.
I do have a mixer I can use, but without much of a soundcheck to really test anything, I can't be getting the sound mix right on my mixer, and filming the show at the same time...
 
This sounds something like a job that I do every year, as the "FOH" guy, but given that I do some video work as well, I like to think I have at least some understand of the issues here.

The problem that comes up with the show that I do is that what I need to amplify for the crowd to hear "live" is not the same as what the video people need to record. For example, I hardly put any of the piano into the mains, and I don't put any of the "backline" (drums, guitar, bass, horns) into it, other than what bleeds into the stage mics and generally does a pretty good job of wiping out the singers that are far closer. :) I'm working with a new group of video people this year, and they seem to have a far greater idea of what they want, so I guess my first bit of advice is to narrow in on what you need and then try and communicate that to the client and to the sound guy. You don't mention anything about what gear you're bringing to the gig, any info you can give us on that would help...

Now, given what you say about the sound guy and how he's sort of doing it on the side with whatever he can scam from his outfit, this may be a bit futile, since you can't really be sure of what he's going to bring. But it's at least a first step, and if he knows anything about what he's doing, he might be able to accomplish the same thing with different gear.
 
Given your situation I would set up a stereo pair in the house going to a decent recorder, the Micro track is OK, and just do it that way. And I would try to find someone, even a volunteer to baby sit it during the show. RE: the miced speakers. I doubt the speakers are over-modulating so your either recording too hot or the mic is too close to the speaker. But as has been said that is probably not going to sound that good anyway.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top