Sony's general innovation over Panasonic and Canon

demoboy

demoboy

Well-known member
Why are Panasonic and Canon afraid of standardizing remote zoom control in even the cheapest models? Also it seems like Sony will be standardizing XAVC-S for all of its consumer based Bionz X processors. Hasn't it been proven that XAVC-S is better than AVCHD? 50Mbps over the 28Mbps
 
joe1946 said:
It's 4K UHD 100Mbps XAVC-S on the new Sony A7r II, RX10 II and RX100 IV.
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Oh yes that I know. I just think Sony is being very generous to offer XAVC-S 50Mbps for their 200 dollar HDR-CX405. That's their base entry consumer model, so I can only imagine XAVC-S standardized here forward. Panasonic's cheapest offering of 50Mbps is their HC-V770K at $550. Nonetheless, Panasonic nor Canon offer a Multi-Interface style port found on NEX or even the better Cybershot cams.
 
Also the Samsung NX500 that was $599 with 16-50 PZ lens about a month ago and today is $647.99 on Amazon has 70Mbps H.265 that is equal to about 140Mbps H.264.
 
I don't think I've ever seen an opening post hidden due to low votes?

Anyway, why do you think Sony holds the crown on innovation? Because they release 7 cameras a year? XAVC-S? In HD it's 50Mbit and 4k its 100Mbit. 100Mbit is not very much for 4K. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 100Mbit 4K is less efficient than the 50Mbit HD.

I think that because Sony has released eleventy cameras in the past 2 years that not many of them are quite refined. It's like they are rushing them out and holding them like carrots in front of the consumer. They're not bad cameras by any means. But they are super ground breaking other than putting some tricks in small compact bodies.

Look, I bought the AX100 as a run around camera. It's fun and all. Do you think they will make the AX200? I bet not. It had XAVC-S 60Mbit when released then a FW update to 100Mbit and it didn't make a bit of difference (no pun intended).

How about the Sony VG10, 20, and 30. And the VG900 or whatever it was called? Where did they go? Imagine you invested in those cameras and all of a sudden, they be gone! Within a the past 2 years you've had 5 A7 bodies. And the latest overheats. Innovation?

Just because Canon and Panny don't release eleventy cameras a year does not mean they don't innovate. I'm pretty sure the DVX200 is going to be a solid performer. And I guarantee the C300mkII will be a production workhorse combined with Rec2020 and ACES with C-LOG2.

The consumer Sony's look good on paper. My only thought is, "That highlight aliasing tho".
 
I would say, other than blackmagic, sony is going the right direction with their offerings. Good price with good stuff. Is there Caveats? Sure. But its still has more positives than negatives.

innovations these days are small increments than total giant leap. Id say sony is trying.
panasonic so far isnt doing anything with their low end cameras. So is canon.

for higher ends, everyone is doing teir own thing. Canon c300 mkII looks like a workhorse. panasonic varicam 35 offers good stuff too. Sony is doing well there too with the f55.
 
I don't know why the opening post is hidden. hehe. Nonetheless it's just a reality of the consumer market. I think Sony gets so many friendly and practical points due to their Multi-Interface port. From Cybershots to NEX, external zoom control features with their protocol make videography so practical. I've seen setups with the DSC-HX50V, stereo electronic shoe mic, and Sony Zoom tripod...the result is great. I mean buying it all used no more than 200 and you have a nice complete rig for people wanting documentary. The kicker is the Multi-Interface connection. Panasonic, Canon, JVC, Samsung don't offer that protocol. It's imo the biggest selling point.
 
Nikon was first to bring video to a large sensor cheap camera (720p, 30p, horrible rolling shutter, no manual exposure) so Canon was second (but defacto first) with the 5DII and that was an innovation that changed the industry upside down. Canon first to make 1080p 24p in a DSLR, first to make 4K in a DSLR-style body with LOG and 4:2:2. Canon innovated the completely newly built C line which became the most successful system in the world, they innovated when they are the only camera company in the world that can do AF on a large sensor (even Alexas/reds/Samsung tech can't), they innovated with their silent AF and IS motors on their STM lens line up and innovated by bringing an un-paralleled 10-18mm s35 IS lens for 250$, first to make a 50mm F/1, brought Image stabilization in 1995, Use of flourite in glass, DO optics (and too many more innovations in the optics world to mention). First to give us a s35 1080p 24p camera with manual control and s35 optics for 500$ (550D), C300II is bloated with new innovations and a never seen before AF system and 15 stops of DR higher than any other camera on the market, and with original C300 introduced best lowlight camera on the market along with the C100, the list goes on, XC10 with a 12mp 1" sensor that's clean at 5000ISO and records internally to 305mbps 4:2:2 LOG, practically the smallest and cheapest broadcast camera on the market with many new innovations (C-Fast, XF-AVC codec, rotating grip,), even in the powershot line they're making great innovations and new products. A 4 million ISO FF vistavision cinema camera with the size of a cube is an innovation.

Panasonic innovated pretty heavily in their GH line, with every new model came huge innovations ending up with the first 4K camera for the consumers with a large sensor and interchangeable lenses, with SDI XLRs solution, still innovating heavily by giving us 4K tiny LX100 and G7, the Varicam 35 and 2/3" docking/detacheable systems with the 35 having a first dual-native ISO sensor. They innovated by leading the m43s market and creating a huge success out of the m43s mirrorless name it now carries to the point of threatening SLRs that have been unrivaled for 70-80 years, and more if you look into it,

Samsung innovation in the camera industry has just started now and with a bomb, a small mirrorless DSLR-sized camera with a 7K s35 sensor that downscales to 4K in realtime and records internally with any heat issues, and the camera is bloated up with un-heard of technology and sensor design, 240p capable sensor at 7K, 240p processing for Autofocus tracking, records 1080p 120p clean. That's their first try and already bloated up with new innovations and ground breaking stuff

Sony innovates recently with introducing the A7 series, FF in a small mirrorless camera, by introducing cheap large sensor camcorders (VGs), by making the A7s lowlight sensor, the 36mp sensors in D800/810 and the new 42mp sensor with class-leading image quality and 4K video. Introduced the RX1, RX1000 with 4K, the RX10 with a 24-240mm F2.8 equivalent lens, the QX module that attaches to phones, giving IBIS to a small FF camera (A7II),

They are all innovating in their own way and you compare specific products, never fall in the trap of comparing brands and companies and choosing upon that, just compare the products performance that suits your needs.

Sony does seem to ''try'' the most new ideas and produce the largest amount of new releases, but the number is not in anyway indicative of their success or degree of innovation. All these companies have been making amazing technology leaps and offering state-of-the-art cinema/video products and we're complaining. To complain about a certain product downsides to try to make them do better is fine, but we can't say they're not innovating and giving us amazing technology as a company.
 
dcloud said:
for higher ends, everyone is doing teir own thing. Canon c300 mkII looks like a workhorse. panasonic varicam 35 offers good stuff too. Sony is doing well there too with the f55.
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I know perspectives have senselessly changed over the years, but a C300 is not high end. Not even close. High end is Alexa, F65, Weapon and Varicam 35.

Putting the C300 together with the Varicam 35 doesn't add up. The C300 is a low end mid tier with the F55 being an upper end mid tier.
 
C300 MKII is teir one cinema camera. With alexa, Reds, Varicam, F65, etc.

Name just one element these cameras have over the C300 MKII that makes it lower end? Unless higher end means just higher cost for you, then yes it's lower end.
 
Ebrahim Saadawi said:
Name just one element these cameras have over the C300 MKII that makes it lower end? Unless higher end means just higher cost for you, then yes it's lower end.
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The same question should be asked of the C300II and the FS7 which is half the price. I've seen numurous posts about the C300II being in a higher bracket than the FS7. Other than price I can't see why they wouldn't be competing for a lot of the same market. One that is saturated with FS7's at the moment. The C300II sits in an interesting spot between the higher cost cameras and lower cost cameras offering similar features. I'm interested to see how it fits.
 
Sttratos said:
I know perspectives have senselessly changed over the years, but a C300 is not high end. Not even close. High end is Alexa, F65, Weapon and Varicam 35.

Putting the C300 together with the Varicam 35 doesn't add up. The C300 is a low end mid tier with the F55 being an upper end mid tier.
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Its higher end because thats what is canon's highest end is. You could say c500 but that ones eclipsed. Y the c300 mii
Sony has fs7 with similar specs to the f55 or f65 but fs7 is not higher end because tats what sony says so.

So im just defining it as what the company claims
 
Sttratos said:
I know perspectives have senselessly changed over the years, but a C300 is not high end. Not even close. High end is Alexa, F65, Weapon and Varicam 35.

Putting the C300 together with the Varicam 35 doesn't add up. The C300 is a low end mid tier with the F55 being an upper end mid tier.
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Just to put things in perspective, the C300 was better(low light, rez,etc) than the camera they shot the last Star Wars with (heavily modified Sony F900 in 2004-2005)......today's high end is tomorrow's.......yesterday's high end is today's......
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Mitch Gross said:
You might be surprised to learn that XAVC in all its variations is a derivative of AVC-i, which was developed by Panasonic.
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Not true - they are both variants of AVC/H264 (as is AVC-HD for that matter), or if you like both are subsets of H264. AVC-Intra and XAVC both "fix" certain features of the general H264 spec together with other attributes such as wrapper etc - such is important for compatibility reasons in the pro world to ensure any AVC-Intra camera camera will work with any AVC-Intra NLE etc, and same applies to XAVC.

So although they may be seen to have a common ancestor, it's wrong to say XAVC is a derivative of AVC-Intra. You could say it`s a bit like brothers - descended from common parents, but the younger brother is not derived from his sibling!!
 
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