Sony's FDR-AX100 4K Handycam ships in March for $2,000 (hands-on)
- Thread starter joe1946
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AtticusLake
Well-known member
Yeah, the way this stuff has been marketed to us is a confusing mess. Anyhow.... basically UHS-II is the electronic interface between the card and its host; this determines the speed at which data can be transferred between the device (e.g. camcorder) and the card's on-board controller.
For flash memory cards, this is usually not a problem; the bottleneck is generally the flash memory itself. That's where "UHS Speed Class" comes in -- that card you posted a pic of says "UHS Speed Class 1" on the front (on the card to the right of the hanger hole), which guarantees reading and writing at 10 MB/s -- i.e. 80 Mbits/sec. For camcorders, the key statistic is how fast can the card GUARANTEE to write data at, continuously, with no stutters. Peak transfer rate doesn't really help us.
That would certainly be cool. A cam like this, with essentially a Super 16 sensor, recording decent quality 4k, would be sensational. For $2000, that could be 100 Mb/sec, 8-bit, 4:2:0 -- i.e. the same as the FS700's on-board recording, but 4k. That's really a very nice image as long as you don't grade too hard.
I think you're right, that's likely to be the main factor. Fingers crossed that they choose to disrupt the market... ;-)
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joe1946
Veteran
NEW SDXC AND SDHC MEMORY CARDS SUPPORT 4K2K VIDEO
https://www.sdcard.org/home/New_SDX..._Now_Support_4K2K_Video_11-6-2013_FINAL_2.pdf
https://www.sdcard.org/home/New_SDX..._Now_Support_4K2K_Video_11-6-2013_FINAL_2.pdf
AtticusLake
Well-known member
Ah, interesting... I didn't realize the "U3" class was so new (last November). Maybe that's why no (or few) cards currently advertise it.
So yeah, U3 when we can get it, supposedly guarantees 240 Mbit/sec writes... that's certainly enough!
AtticusLake
Well-known member
On the sensor size -- according to Sony, it's 13.2mm x 8.8mm. I'm never, ever, going to buy a Sony calculator, if they take in those numbers and spit out "one inch" as the answer... ;-)
But at least it is a little more than Super 16, so should still be a nice image.
http://store.sony.com/4k-camcorder-...RAX100/B/cat-27-catid-All-Handycam-Camcorders
But at least it is a little more than Super 16, so should still be a nice image.
http://store.sony.com/4k-camcorder-...RAX100/B/cat-27-catid-All-Handycam-Camcorders
Darren Levine
Veteran
I'm not seeing hard bitrates listed anywhere, are there any numbers published, or just word of mouth?
AtticusLake
Well-known member
I haven't seen anything about bitrates; so far we're just speculating, as far as I know.
However I just noticed this in Sony's specs:
- Memory Card Slot : SDXC Memory Card(Class 10) [XAVC S]; Memory Stick PRO Duo (Mark 2);Memory Stick XC-HG Duo; Memory Stick PRO Duo (Mark 2); SD/SDHC/SDXC Memory Card(Class 4 or Higher)
In other words, in XAVC-S mode, it only needs a class 10 SD card???? Yikes, that's pretty slow for 4k.
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R Hudson
Well-known member
the 16:9 video mode windows the full sensor ...so it's alittle smaller than 13.2 x 8.8 ...from 20mp to 14mp.
tull_power
Active member
Hi Mr Levine. To answer your question about bitrates, we do know the AX100 records to XAVC-S from Sony's own official specifications (link in AtticusLake's post - http://store.sony.com/4k-camcorder-with-1-sensor-zid27-FDRAX100/B/cat-27-catid-All-Handycam-Camcorders) in the 'Recording' sub heading;
'Video Resolution : XAVC-S 4K : 3840×2160/30P, 24P; XAVC-S HD : 1920x1080/60P, 30P,'.
The bitrate for 4K however, is not mentioned anywhere. We do know those for the Sony AX1 though, the AX100's big brother released a couple of months ago, which records XAVC-S 4K at 60mb/s and 100mb/s. The AX100 official specifications page says Class 10 sd-cards are required for XAVC-S 4K ('Media Type : SDXC Memory Card(Class 10) [XAVC S]'). Considering that maximum write speed for Class 10 cards is 10MB/s which translates to just 80mb/s, it is way too low for the higher 100mb/s XAVC-S option.
These specifications, coupled with the fact that the sample video is composed mainly of locked down shots (to minimize large differences between frames which would break the codec), and that Sony has often crippled a low end model purely to differentiate it from its more expensive siblings, it is painfully obvious the AX100 will only record 4k at 60mb/s or less.
Regarding 2K though, the news is most definitely better. The Sony CX900, also released today and identical to the AX100 (without 4k but $500 cheaper) records 1080p in XAVC-S at 50mb/s. It seems reasonable therefore to assume that the AX100 will also have this option. It is certainly a welcome step up from the 28mb/s AVCHD codec on the Cybershot RX10 photo camera, from which both the CX900 and AX100 are inspired. Speaking of the RX10, I do wonder if the 2K video on the AX100 (and CX900) will be just as good, considering that it has been favourably compared to the likes of the Canon C100.
Tellingly, Sony has artificially stiffled two innovative ground breaking cameras, the RX10 and AX100 from reaching their full potential by limiting their bitrate. Similarly, I remember the Sony XR520, a brilliant camcorder released a few years ago, being limited to 16mb/s while the more expensive NX models, with identical sensors and processors would go the full nine yards with 24mb/s.
Phew.... as an aside, thanks for your coverage of the RX10 and the very informative forum posts Mr.Levine, they're very appreciated!
'Video Resolution : XAVC-S 4K : 3840×2160/30P, 24P; XAVC-S HD : 1920x1080/60P, 30P,'.
The bitrate for 4K however, is not mentioned anywhere. We do know those for the Sony AX1 though, the AX100's big brother released a couple of months ago, which records XAVC-S 4K at 60mb/s and 100mb/s. The AX100 official specifications page says Class 10 sd-cards are required for XAVC-S 4K ('Media Type : SDXC Memory Card(Class 10) [XAVC S]'). Considering that maximum write speed for Class 10 cards is 10MB/s which translates to just 80mb/s, it is way too low for the higher 100mb/s XAVC-S option.
These specifications, coupled with the fact that the sample video is composed mainly of locked down shots (to minimize large differences between frames which would break the codec), and that Sony has often crippled a low end model purely to differentiate it from its more expensive siblings, it is painfully obvious the AX100 will only record 4k at 60mb/s or less.
Regarding 2K though, the news is most definitely better. The Sony CX900, also released today and identical to the AX100 (without 4k but $500 cheaper) records 1080p in XAVC-S at 50mb/s. It seems reasonable therefore to assume that the AX100 will also have this option. It is certainly a welcome step up from the 28mb/s AVCHD codec on the Cybershot RX10 photo camera, from which both the CX900 and AX100 are inspired. Speaking of the RX10, I do wonder if the 2K video on the AX100 (and CX900) will be just as good, considering that it has been favourably compared to the likes of the Canon C100.
Tellingly, Sony has artificially stiffled two innovative ground breaking cameras, the RX10 and AX100 from reaching their full potential by limiting their bitrate. Similarly, I remember the Sony XR520, a brilliant camcorder released a few years ago, being limited to 16mb/s while the more expensive NX models, with identical sensors and processors would go the full nine yards with 24mb/s.
Phew.... as an aside, thanks for your coverage of the RX10 and the very informative forum posts Mr.Levine, they're very appreciated!
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Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Looks pretty damn good.
A 1-inch sensor size does indeed measure 13.2 x 8.8 mm. That's about the same-size sensor in the Nikon V1 (which is made by Aptina).
Mark Williams
Veteran
I downloaded the 1080p version. There is some weird distortion in several scenes.
- sheep fur at :20
- top rail of boat at 1:02
- cow's head at 1:13
John Godden
Well-known member
This made no sense to me UNTIL I did a little net search:
http://www.dpreview.com/glossary/camera-system/sensor-sizes
John Godden
Well-known member
Most likely youtube compression issues.
tull_power
Active member
What I did notice myself, was the amazing amount of detail in still shots, with little to no movement. But in the birds on top of cliffs scene, where there was movement all over the frame the detail and sharpness were drastically reduced, and comparable (if not worse) to normal HD video. Same goes for the airplane scenes, which definitely looked like run of the mill HD video, and lacked the intricate detail and sharpness of the earlier footage.
Looks like we'll have to put this little beauty on a tripod and plan scenes carefully if we're to benefit from 4k! Unless Sony have a change of heart and increase the bitrate to a more respectable level.
Looks like we'll have to put this little beauty on a tripod and plan scenes carefully if we're to benefit from 4k! Unless Sony have a change of heart and increase the bitrate to a more respectable level.
Erik Naso
Veteran
Thats pretty impressive.
legrevedotcom
Veteran
I wish they'd release an action cam with these specs !