Sony FX3 camcorder registered - 8K?
- Thread starter ahalpert
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morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I always shoot 25p.. until I’m hired to do some movi jib work (establishing exts the actual action was in a studio in a different country) on a lb feature.. my favourite kind of assignment. 24p of course it is. Even the fs7 was hell at 24p cos it kicks out psf whatever the fook that is.. which doesn’t work with half of monitors
Cliënt 24p
Me no problem
The day “oh fook bummed by Sony again”
Im a simpleton and I don’t even get why 23p or 27p is not an option
Cliënt 24p
Me no problem
The day “oh fook bummed by Sony again”
Im a simpleton and I don’t even get why 23p or 27p is not an option
Run&Gun
Veteran
They’re not standardized “playback”, broadcast or cinema frame rates. Depending on the camera, you can acquire(shoot) in those frame rates, but they are either going to playback as slow(over crank) or fast(under crank) motion. Or is the question, “Why do we shoot/watch at 24 frame, 25 frame, 30 frame, etc. and not some other seemingly random frame rate”?
JPNola
Veteran
Not much demand for either in my experience. Not to disrespect your want of it. I had to look up “DCI” after reading your post in order to be reminded what it is.
Apparently the cooling system was a big priority with this camera model. Making room for it while keeping the body small meant sacrifices / non-inclusions. One being to go without a VF. Maybe having DCI capability takes room that would have been adverse to keeping the body-size small? Or maybe it is a function of the lack of demand I mentioned.
You have many clients wanting true 24? I do not. Maybe 1 out of every 200 gigs do they want true 24.
Samuel Dilworth
Well-known member
Holes and a fan count as a weak effort.
I’m hearing the noise-reduction can’t be turned off, either. Can anyone confirm?
It doesn’t have software features like a waveform monitor or shutter-angle control, either. On the plus side, those omissions don’t exclude the α7S III from eventually getting them (whereas if Sony had given the FX3 those features, it might have been a sign that the α7S III would never get them).
I’m hearing the noise-reduction can’t be turned off, either. Can anyone confirm?
It doesn’t have software features like a waveform monitor or shutter-angle control, either. On the plus side, those omissions don’t exclude the α7S III from eventually getting them (whereas if Sony had given the FX3 those features, it might have been a sign that the α7S III would never get them).
JPNola
Veteran
Give Sony some credit. Apparently making it weather-sealed and also have cooling was no small feat, involving creating an inner-body within the body, the cooling mech outside the inner but still able to cool it. I read some doubters saying no way it has cooling and weather-sealing only to be informed that, yes, Sony pulled it off. Responses countered that weather-sealing isn’t important to them, that’s what rain-covers are for.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
didn't the panny S1H do weather-sealing with a fan first? with the same type of implementation as you describe?
Run&Gun
Veteran
I've never been asked for true 24.00P, to the best of my current recollection. But I have shot 2K(which is a DCI format by definition) and 4K(the same; not UHD) numerous times. Whether is was truly necessary is another matter(doubtful). It just seems like an oversight if you are making a camera in a "Cinema Line" and every other camera in the series does it.
Run&Gun
Veteran
Shooting with a rain cover on a camera is one of life's little joys. Ranks up there with going to the dentist and fire-ant bites. You've felt the same pain...
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Of course I know 23 and 27 are not standard and are over/undercrank. But Im 'a DP' and just want the camera do do as I tell it (or more importantly do what my director asks for)
It seems something about archaic sony architecture. Just two days ago I was in the shi_tty hole of my FS7 being stuck at 30p - obviously I knew I needed to switch from NTSC (1941) to PAL (patented by Telefunken in 1962) - is PAL/NTSC in the menu? is it fook - of course not! Its under country or something. Just another couple of minutes wasted on set doing that menu dig.
WIth the fs7 a jump from 25p to 180S+Q is a huge menu dig. Result I only ever shot at 150, never used those extra 30FPS because they were just too hidden to be accessed on set.
Sony seem to think about television. Im just after a tool that takes many photographs. Ill work out the rest thanks.
A quick google of the Alexa - shoots .75 to 200FPS (no quality drops - simple) - Im assuming it steps in 1fps increments - I may be wrong
I dont really know about making cameras (but I am working on the timelapse pi) and frame rate is a simple variable.
Bottom line.. my gimbal camera needs to shoot 'cinema' because thats what is needed. And it needs to put it out the back in a format that monitors can read.
Thats not my choice or desire or anything artsy. Its just what the callsheet might say! FSX3 null points.
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Yes, they did.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
There we go.. 11.5 fps if I want. NOt 1FPS increments. 1/1000 of a second increments. WHat one does is 'add to list' which starts populated with the regualar rates.
Playback rate is (logically) in another menu
View attachment 142549
Playback rate is (logically) in another menu
View attachment 142549
Run&Gun
Veteran
Okay. I think we're on the same page, now. It's more a Sony complaint, than a camera complaint. My P2 VariCam will shoot from 1fps to 60fps in one frame increments. But of course, what it plays back at, is locked to the "standards"(23.98, 24, 25, 29.97, 30, 50, 59.94). One of the cool things about the tape VariCam's, it shot whatever frame rate you set it to and laid it over(real time pull-down) the constant 60 fps that the tape transport ALWAYS ran. So you could use it for real-time practical effects and aesthetics/looks to a degree. You could shoot slightly less than your base frame rate and it would still play back in real time or shoot slightly more(obviously no more than 60, though) and still play back, because all of the slow and fast motion had to be done in post. I actually have a buddy that shot his "24fps(23.98)" content at 22fps or 23fps, back then, because he liked the look.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Varicam and alexa are costly.. but for any camera to miss out 'stock' rates is appalling. For a 'cine' camer to miss out on the standard 'cinema' projection rate is actually funny.
Like i said I dont even think it is hard to put in. You wont see me suggesting that £2k cameras have 1000FPS16bit raw. Just suggesting that cameras have enough that you are not the on set laughing stock.
Is there a difference between 23.98 and 24..? probably not in todays NLEs .. does it matter.. yes because the producer pays not the NLE so the producer is always right.
Like i said I dont even think it is hard to put in. You wont see me suggesting that £2k cameras have 1000FPS16bit raw. Just suggesting that cameras have enough that you are not the on set laughing stock.
Is there a difference between 23.98 and 24..? probably not in todays NLEs .. does it matter.. yes because the producer pays not the NLE so the producer is always right.
Run&Gun
Veteran
Yes. All the basics should be there.
The "fractional frame rates" are the leftover hell that we have to still deal with in the ATSC(NTSC) world. I understand why we had them, but with the transition to UHD/4K, they should have gotten rid of them, just like they did interlace. Yeah, it's still gonna be a long time before HD is completely supplanted, but it would have been a start to only have progressive, "full frame rates" in UHD/4K and above. I imagine all of us on this board today that shoot in ATSC/NTSC regions will retire from this business stillshooting non-integer/"fractional" frame rates.
JPNola
Veteran
I stand corrected- Sony not first to accomplish the sealing + active cooling in this type of camera.
I was not aware Panasonic had. Thanks for correcting me. Props to Panny. Sony engineers apparently keep tabs on Panasonic but I do not. I should. But Panasonic cameras are not present in my professional video world. Same for Blackmagic.
Maybe the FX3 is targeted at people like myself. A little mirrorless is never going to be my main camera. As a result I am less bothered than others by what the FX3 lacks. For me it would be a gimbal-cam and once in a while serve as B or C camera. Maybe something like mounting in car interiors as well. A better GoPro.
I am considering getting the FX3 to be my A7sii with longer record time. That’s all I want from the FX3.
I was not aware Panasonic had. Thanks for correcting me. Props to Panny. Sony engineers apparently keep tabs on Panasonic but I do not. I should. But Panasonic cameras are not present in my professional video world. Same for Blackmagic.
Maybe the FX3 is targeted at people like myself. A little mirrorless is never going to be my main camera. As a result I am less bothered than others by what the FX3 lacks. For me it would be a gimbal-cam and once in a while serve as B or C camera. Maybe something like mounting in car interiors as well. A better GoPro.
I am considering getting the FX3 to be my A7sii with longer record time. That’s all I want from the FX3.
Run&Gun
Veteran
That's also similar to the Komodo(just much smaller). The Komodo cooling tunnel, while obviously open and a pass-thru for air, is sealed off from the true inside of the camera.
JPNola
Veteran
“ For a 'cine' camera to miss out on the standard 'cinema' projection rate is actually funny. ”
Morgan- these “Cine” cameras are going to be used in tv-production.
I don’t think anyone, including you, thinks “cine” today means only cinema. It is used as a marketing ploy, yes. But it also has come to mean / suggest cinema-type features for use in content that is not cinema.
It isn’t marketing as silly as calling a tripod “HD”, imo.
The FX3 was not designed for actual cinema production and few will try to use it for actual cinema production. I think everyone, even newbies to video, knows that. It has features that were once only in “cinema” cameras. And it can produce images that more look like “cinema” ( film ) than cameras of previous generation. The “cinema-look”.
If we want to go there with misuse of “cinema”, is it wrong to use Cinematographer in regard to someone whose work has never shown in any cinema? What cinema you tographing for, Mr.Cinematographer? If you are DP-ing a tv segment are you performing cinematography?
You’ve put a fair amount of energy into making it known you dislike much about this camera. We get it. Buy yourself an ARRI mini LF and go to town on it. But don’t you dare tell anyone you are making a “film” with it.
Morgan- these “Cine” cameras are going to be used in tv-production.
I don’t think anyone, including you, thinks “cine” today means only cinema. It is used as a marketing ploy, yes. But it also has come to mean / suggest cinema-type features for use in content that is not cinema.
It isn’t marketing as silly as calling a tripod “HD”, imo.
The FX3 was not designed for actual cinema production and few will try to use it for actual cinema production. I think everyone, even newbies to video, knows that. It has features that were once only in “cinema” cameras. And it can produce images that more look like “cinema” ( film ) than cameras of previous generation. The “cinema-look”.
If we want to go there with misuse of “cinema”, is it wrong to use Cinematographer in regard to someone whose work has never shown in any cinema? What cinema you tographing for, Mr.Cinematographer? If you are DP-ing a tv segment are you performing cinematography?
You’ve put a fair amount of energy into making it known you dislike much about this camera. We get it. Buy yourself an ARRI mini LF and go to town on it. But don’t you dare tell anyone you are making a “film” with it.