Some of my audio came out too quiet, what to do!

[ironpony]

For a new movie, I am editing, I recorded grunts for a fight scene. However, most of the grunts for some reason, came out more quiet than they read on the field recorder. The recorder was saying they are between 12db and 6. I put it through Adobe Audition, that also says 12db and 6, but they are more quiet than the other sounds. Sounds more like 30db. I don't want to use those cause it seems I'll be bringing up the noise floor. I only have two good grunts, and I was thinking I would use them over and over. The actor is now unavailable to come back. I was also thinking I could record my voice and do some whisper grunts. Just really harsh breaths being knocked out of me. And have that double for the actor. Not sure if the audience could tell the harsh breaths were someone else though. I am also in the fight scene and have to dub my own grunts and hard breathing so that makes it tougher to sound different.

The guy fighting me also yells out lines as to how he is going to kill me, etc. But those lines recorded quiet as well, even though they read at a louder db or so it says. I have three lines so far that are loud enough. You can see that the actor is shouting during the fight, so I got to put something in. Perhaps I could use the same three lines over and over and try to make them sound different a little, but this whole thing goes on for about five minutes. So what do you do in this position?

 

[Jema]

This is interesting. So you're saying the levels on the meter is fine and should give sounds loud enough, but it still sounds very low. The grunts and lines that are loud enough - do they give similar levels, or higher?

One possible explanation is that if what the meters show does not correlate with what you hear, then it might be that you where actually recording sound in a register so high or low that some part in your audio equipment chain can't reproduce it (if this is the case, it's most likely the speakers). That "unhearable" sound is then what the meters register. Many DAWs have a frequency analyzer you can use to check this.

If it's in an action scene, the higher noise floor might get drowned in all the other effects and music. Trying to reuse the same grunts and lines sounds very dubious to me.

 

[ironpony]

I think that's what happened, the unhearable sound was was was setting off the levels. The other actors are better and louder, but read at the same levels. I could have the music be louder, but there are some parts where having the music drown it out will take away from the intensity of the fight. There is also one section of it, where it would be much more effective if I did not have music. But in that shot, the action is further away, so maybe it being more quiet is okay, because the characters are further away? The music was not suppose to start until about halfway through, and that was the music composer and the director's plan.

 

[Noiz2]

The likely reason is your system isn't calibrated. You want Dolby pink to be at around 80db from each speaker measured at your mixing position. I say abou because a mix stage is set higher but it's also a larger room than you are probably in, so you are going to have to knock that down a bit.

For what your doing you can use a smart phone db meter ap and whatever pink your DAW has and be close enough. The critical part is to set it and not change it. If the sound is too loud adjust the mix not the amplifier.

With out calibrating any assessment about how "loud" something is is pointless.

You might also have bused something wrong, or have a master low??? But if your meters including the output are significantly hotter than what you are hearing the problem is much more likely to be your calibration.

With grunts and hits etc. IF you don't have any wind protection you could be getting a wind hit giving you a really big low end bump. It's easy to check, stick a 80Hz high pass on the signal and see if your meters drop drastically. They will drop a bit since naturally you will have a lot of low end in those kind of sounds but it shouldn't be a really big drop.

And finally. You can record anybody grunting, none of your audience will know as long as it's in sync and in the same ball park sonically.

 

[TheDingo]

Ironpony,

Can you detail what gear you used and how it was connected ?

Also, can you post some sample files that we can take a look at. ( it's a lot easier to diagnose problems when we can hear the actual recording )

 

[ironpony]

I used the FR2-LE and AT4053b. I will upload a couple of samples. Sorry about the font changing on here not sure what happened.

 

[Gregg Juke]

I would agree that anybiody could do the grunts. Anybody dubbing characters, or repeating the same lines over and over with mismatched video is another thing entirely, though...

Noize, is that 80db standard mixing stage playback level? In the recording studio it's more like 85-90, with lots of adjustments to playback level depending on what you're trying to hear... That's good info to know, though!

GJ

 

[Noiz2]

Mix stages are 85 I believe, that's checked one speaker at a time before every mis session (so usually twice a day), so a bit higher when everything is going. Edit rooms and smaller spaces are generally lower. I calibrate my room at 79. Films are mixed by ear and not with meters so it's very important that your room stays calibrated at a consistent level. I actually have a attenuator on the system so all the way up is where I calibrate and I can turn it down when I'm not mixing. I don't calibrated every day unless I'm mixing. I probably don't really need to but it's so easy to knock something out of whack and then you waste a bunch of time fixing.

Not so true with video but films are mixed in reels. So a typical film is mixed in five different pieces. A mix reel holds about twenty minutes of film. Since it might be days between mixing reel 1 and reel 5 if the room is out of spec you will end up with big problems when you play it all back in sequence.

 

[Gregg Juke]

Awesome, thanks for the indepth answer!

GJ

 

[davefisk]

I had this happen to me once, and I realized that I had somehow sent everything to a stereo mix bus that had a really low level. I pulled the level up to normal on the mix bus, and everything was fine.

 

[ironpony]

Okay thanks. But I have a problem. Even though the audio recorded really quiet, the wavforms are big. When I try to make the audio louder, the waves peak, causing the audio to peak, even though it's not very loud. So I can't turn it up much without peaking. What do I do?

 

[Rick R]

Okay thanks. But I have a problem. Even though the audio recorded really quiet, the waveforms are big. When I try to make the audio louder, the waves peak, causing the audio to peak, even though it's not very loud. So I can't turn it up much without peaking. What do I do?

Without hearing it , i would speculate it was likely picked up via a camera mounted mic.. a common problem. It can made 'louder' with compression, ect., but not much better. It will not make it sound closer... ADR is probably the best option... or re-shooting it with proper mic selection and placement.
If you can post a clip, we can better evaluate it.

 

[ironpony]

No this was during ADR, and the mic, an AT4053b was right at the guy's mouth. So not sure what happened! My souncloud account is gone, it seems. I will have to create a new one. I can't redub though, as the actor is moved and not available. Okay I can do the grunts like one suggested. However I am in this fight scene too, and already have my own grunts. So I would have to sound different for him, trying to match his voice when he shouts in other scenes. He is also Asian where as I am white. Not sure if audiences will think it's weird for a white voice to dub over an Asian voice, but maybe I'm just being too picky?

 

[Noiz2]

let me summarize.

You have a big waveform but your hearing it really quiet. If you increase the gain you hear clipping.

The answer is your sound file is not quiet, you are turning it down someplace. Clip automation? Assignment? Your amp is turned down? Your sending it to a sub and the sub is turned down? You are set up for 5.1 for some reason and it's mostly panned to non existent speakers?

Play the file in some other application, like quicktime player if your on a Mac and ??? if your on a PC. You will probably hear it playback fine. If so then some of the above is happening. If not you have a weird one, OR your speakers are off.

BTW the size of the "waveform" is not necessarily a good indicator. It's generated by the application you are using based on what it thought it heard in the file. A lot of times those "overviews" are cached someplace and they can get corrupted. Also most programs let you zoom the display so the waveform may be huge visually in a very quiet file, but it would then not clip if you added gain.

 

[ironpony]

Thanks but I have already played it in VLC media player, Premiere Pro, and Adobe Audition. It's quiet in all of those.

 

[j1clark@ucsd.edu]

Thanks but I have already played it in VLC media player, Premiere Pro, and Adobe Audition. It's quiet in all of those.

Here's a screen capture from my 'test' project for Premiere CS6. It's the same one I used to respond to your 3-way color corrector question. I've dropped the original MTS clip into the 'source viewer', selected 'Audio Wave Forms', and then played the clip, so that the audio meters will display the 'level'.

The Circles and Arrows will indicate the 'wave form' area that the meters are displaying.

For this clip it is a 'happy shot', and so the audio is what the camera has captured. The area is a large warehouse/high bay work area and the pool with dog add up to 'lousy' sound... but the point is one can see the wave forms and the corresponding levels.

The red circle on the wave form surrounds a 'peak' level that is very close to 0 dBFS. I was not able to capture that exact moment, but still the level from the meter is about -6 dBFS, and is indicated as 'yellow', as in 'caution'. Also notice the 'highwater' indications just above the green/yellow meter indicator, which show that the sound reached that level 'recently'..

I would suggest looking at your clip that you think of as 'too low', and if the wave form is 'peaking' near the top of the area like the peaks in my 'red circle', and there are yellow or red indications on the meters, there is something 'wrong' with your output to your speakers.

 

[ironpony]

Okay thanks this helps a lot. But how come it is just this one guys voice that is like this, where as everyone els's ADR, which was all recorded in the same day, same place, same equipment, is fine? What about his ADR, that changed do you think?

 

[j1clark@ucsd.edu]

Okay thanks this helps a lot. But how come it is just this one guys voice that is like this, where as everyone els's ADR, which was all recorded in the same day, same place, same equipment, is fine? What about his ADR, that changed do you think?

Really... who knows... in camera work... there's the 'oops I forgot to reset the f-stop'... or the every popular... 'oops I didn't set the correct white balance'... wrong ISO... light 'suddenly changed'... etc...

Things that occur to me are. 1) some gain setting was changed either intentionally or accidentally. 2) the performer was not speaking to the mic in the same way as the others... 3) if batteries were used in the equipment, they were near 'end of life'... etc.