Some general info on DVD capacity and bitrate

Damon_C

Member
The first thing to keep in mind is that you will not be able to get 'Hollywood quality' DVDs and still put 90 minutes or 2 hours on a single disc. The disc labels that say '2 hour capacity' should be totally ignored, the same way you ignore VHS labels that claim you can fit 6 hours on them.

Hollywood DVDs are not 'burned' in the traditional sense, they are basically screenprinted, and two layers of data are sandwiched together. They're called DVD9's, and most of them are 9.5 gb. Big studios also use hardware encoding boards, which encode mpegs in real-time as they capture your video from the deck. The best ones cost around $15k, and produce stunning image quality.

Burning discs at home is a lot more limited. You have a single layer disc, and software mpeg encoders. You want to try and maintain the highest possible image quality within these limitations. Bitrate is king when it comes to image quality- the higher the bitrate the better.  

At the highest bitrate that the DVD spec will allow (8 mbps for the video portion, approx 1.7 mbps for the audio), you will only fit about 60 minutes onto one disc. If you use Dolby AC3 audio instead of PCM, you'll add about 10-12 minutes to that. This is the baseline you should go by- anything more than 70 minutes of video on one disc, and you will be forced to sacrifice image quality. If not using Dolby, 60 minutes is your limit.

You can minimize the sacrifice by using variable bitrate, multipass settings in a good encoder. This means the software scans the video and uses a lower bitrate in the parts that don't have much action. It saves room, but still sacrifices quality. It also takes a lot of processing time.

To get the highest possible quality (with software) you would use a <60 minute mpeg2 encoded at 8 mbps constant bitrate.

The bitrate setting is found in almost all editing programs, in the export window. Set it up to export as mpeg2, with the bitrate on CBR (constant bitrate), or VBR (variable). As a general guide, here's what you can fit on a DVD-R, assuming you are not using Dolby audio:
8 mbps = 60 min.
6 mbps = 1 hr. 15 min.
4 mbps = 2 hrs., but at half the quality of a commercial disc
2 mbps = 4 hours - at this setting, it's looking like that 14th generation Night Flight video dub you got from your friends brother who had a cool Camaro in '86.

If image quality is a serious concern, don't exceed 65-75 minutes on a DVD-R.

Here are some of the other settings required to meet the DVD spec:
audio- 48khz PCM or Dolby
GOP size- 15 frames
Field ordering- Lower Field First
Resolution- 720x480

Dual-layer burners are becoming cheaper and more common, which alleviates most disc capacity concerns. Also, next-generation DVDs are not too far off, such as Blu-Ray, and these discs will hold a mind-boggling amount of data- 35 gb or so. With these, the whole DVD spec will change and it will probably introduce HD-DVDs as the new dominant format. Couple that with an HD widescreen TV, and it will be hard to leave the house.
 
Re: Some general info on DVD capacity and bitrate

Good information, but I don't know that I agree with you that CBR at 8000 kbps will give you the best possible quality. VBR, by its very nature results in a higher quality encoding, IF (big if) you have good encoding software.

You also did not address other encoding paramaters like the amount of B frames, the size of the GOP, etc.

I believe that it IS possible to get 90 minutes to 2 hours on a single-layer DVD-R or +R disc, and have it be of such quality that only the most anal of us would complain about ... as long as you're careful about it. ;)

My two cents.

Chris
 
Re: Some general info on DVD capacity and bitrate

I edited the post to add a few more parameters required for DVD, including the GOP size.

I am unsure why you say that VBR by it's nature yields a higher quality encode.
The reason I say that 8 mbps CBR is the highest quality is this:
If you encode at VBR, you set a minimum and a maximum bitrate. The software will encode down toward the minimum bitrate for any scene where it can get away with it- i.e. static scenes without much motion.
For the sake of argument, let's say that the VBR encoder decided to encode half your video at 4mbps, and the other half at 8mbps. You are still losing something in the scenes that were encoded at 4 mbps. BUT, it's true that you are only "losing" something if compared to the maximum possible bitrate. It doesn't necessarily mean it will look horrible.

My theory is based on the fact that if every scene of the video is encoded at 8mbps, it will result in better quality overall than if only half the video utilized the 8mbps bitrate.

It's a fact that quality loss will result from putting more than 75 minutes on a single-layer disc (with Dolby)...but the question of how many people can tell the difference is subjective. I do feel that most filmmakers are likely to be far more anal about their own work, and thus hesitant to lower the quality on anything.
 
Re: Some general info on DVD capacity and bitrate

You make a good point. I should have said that VBR by nature is more efficient, instead of being higher quality. If you have a good encoder, then the only difference that you should see in a VBR MPEG-2 and a CBR MPEG-2 would be in the file size.

Personally I feel that CBR is a bit wasteful, I only use it for short encodes that I need finished quickly. But you are correct that 8000 kbps CBR would be as high as you could go as far as quality is concerned.

Chris
 
Re: Some general info on DVD capacity and bitrate

I'm creating a 60 minute DVD in FCP and exporting with compressor... I had a problem with burning and had the error message bitrate too high in DVD studio pro. I looked on the net and someone suggested running the audio through APACK. I did it and the DVD burned fine but the audio is a lot lower level wise and the picture looks slightly jumpy when the camera is moving fast.

You fellows seem to know your stuff.. could you suggest a different way of exporting from Final cut? and also a way to export the audio so it's still high quality... I also like Apacks simple way to channel the audio into surround sound.. do you know if this is available in anyother program...

cheers
 
Re: Some general info on DVD capacity and bitrate

Sorry, I'm not going to be able to help you. I'm a PC guy and have very limited experience with FCP and I've never heard of APACK.

You might start a new thread about this. Some people might not check updated posts to this one since it was just two people arguing about bitrates. ;D

Good luck!

Chris
 
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