Some advice please

S

stringz

Active member
Ok Here's the scenario.

The idea is to film some teenagers perform Shakespeares "The Tempest". They will be performing to an audience with the stage in the centre of a room and the audience seated (or poss standing) around the stage.

The intention is to film on 3 HDCam cameras.

In the The Tempest there are about 18 characters including the main protagonist, Prospero (if you care).

The production wants to have iso tracks to mix in post but do not have the budget for lots of radios, and me working on my own also don't want to use them as it sounds like a huge headache in the making. So what I am thinking was to put one radio on Prospero and then rig 4 or 5 hardwired lavs to the ceiling at various positions around the stage. Hopefully, then, at any point there would be a mic to pick up the dialogue and recoding iso tracks would mean I would not have to ride the faders. Can you guys think of a better alternative?

Also do you think i should send a mix to each of the cameras or just make sure we are all synced up and then put camera mics on to record guide tracks. ATM i think the second option is more sensible given the workload. I am inexperienced at working on multi camera set-ups, what is the best way to sync up the cameras and the recorder? A Lock-it box or something similar?

Any advice here would be massively appreciated. I am throwing myself in the deep end here but I think I could do it and am quite excited by the whole thing.

Thank you in advance.
 
Not PZM - PCC!

That is, directional boundary mics ("Phase coherent cardioid") rather than PZM (omnidirectional "pressure zone microphones"). These can be mounted on the edge of the stage floor, and will do a reasonable job if the actors are projecting properly.
 
Mousepad shouldn't infringe on the mic's ability no, and it will do wonders for footsteps. If they don't have a budget for lavs for each person, then yes, I would do what you suggest. Though I would do a mix of PCCs and overheads. And make sure you record each mic to a separate track so you can mix them later. Unless you've got several rehearsals in which to check and double check mic placement and sound mix, you want the flexibility of being able to remix later. And yes, just use your camera's mic for now for a reference point so you can sync your mixed audio in post. Also, be aware that if you put a lav on prospero and not on any of the others, you'll hear the difference when you watch the video. If you find you're getting good pickup from your ceiling mounts and PCCs, you might not want to lav him separately.
 
davbeisner said:
Mousepad shouldn't infringe on the mic's ability no, and it will do wonders for footsteps. If they don't have a budget for lavs for each person, then yes, I would do what you suggest. Though I would do a mix of PCCs and overheads. And make sure you record each mic to a separate track so you can mix them later. Unless you've got several rehearsals in which to check and double check mic placement and sound mix, you want the flexibility of being able to remix later. And yes, just use your camera's mic for now for a reference point so you can sync your mixed audio in post. Also, be aware that if you put a lav on prospero and not on any of the others, you'll hear the difference when you watch the video. If you find you're getting good pickup from your ceiling mounts and PCCs, you might not want to lav him separately.
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Ok silly questions time, why do you recommend doing a mix if i am also going to be recording iso tracks for post anyway. I know this is what the features guys do but is that not just for the dailies?

If i can't get PCC mics is there anything i could do to the pcm's to turn them into a more cardioid pattern (with tape perhaps)?
 
Not really anything you can do the pzms, no. Use them if that's all you've got, they'll still work. And make sure you use the foam mousepads... they'll soak up the walking.

I guess I wasn't clear in my last post, sorry... use sound mix only if you've got a couple dress rehearsals to fine tune it. If you don't have that luxury, then use multi-tracking and mix in post. Question: is your sound setup also providing the house sound, or will it not be amplified in house?
 
davbeisner said:
Not really anything you can do the pzms, no. Use them if that's all you've got, they'll still work. And make sure you use the foam mousepads... they'll soak up the walking.

I guess I wasn't clear in my last post, sorry... use sound mix only if you've got a couple dress rehearsals to fine tune it. If you don't have that luxury, then use multi-tracking and mix in post. Question: is your sound setup also providing the house sound, or will it not be amplified in house?
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Cheers for all your advice Dave, glad to see the special relationship between America and Britain in action.
To answer your question, in as far as i know I am not required to provide the house sound, so I won't have to provide a mix with regard this either. I think the separate isos are the way for me to go as I don't think i will have the luxury of a couple of rehearsals.
I was thinking I may also use a boom mic to pick up some ambient noise of the audience (for applause) or do u think this won't be necessary with all the mics on stage, that will be fairly close to the audience
 
One more question, Why would the pzms/pcc's be better situated on the floor rather than overhead. If the ceiling is only 3 feet above headheight surely this would be a better mic position than down at floor level?
 
the way the pzms are designed is for floor pickup. I suppose they would work overhead as well... I've never tried that. Never hurts to expirement!

I would definitely get audience reaction sounds... it'll definitely help you with your final mix in post. Small diaphragm studio cardiod condensers (such as the Neumann KM184) work well for this.

Also, if you're going to do a multi-track recording, make sure you've got your rate set to match your video: probably going to be 48khz.

I miss the quiet villages outside of London. I was in London a couple years ago on a chorale tour with my university. We tried to get dinner at a pub in Picadilly Circus but could barely walk it was so crowded. So a couple of us broke off from the main group, descended into the tube station, closed our eyes, and randomly hit the tube map to figure out where we were going to go for dinner. Ended up going to Camden Town where we found a nice quiet pub to eat. Lived in Scotland for a year back in the late '90s. Lifestyle is so much quieter and more laid back than the US. I miss it.

Cheers on your project!
 
The idea of using overhead lavs or small condensors hanging from above is the best choice for this situation. Map out your floor into zones with corresponding ceiling mic zones. Have the director in rehearsal use these zones for delivery. Be at the rehearsals and make sure you're getting appropiate signal & delivery, or be prepared for frustration. The director can place marks on the floor for actors to hit while delivering their lines. You won't need an audience mic.

If you want to use PZMs, cut out small 2'X2' plexi glass sheets and tape the PZMs on these. These plexi glass sheets can be hung up overhead aiming down at the zones....kind of wierd but it'll work....but it may not look too good!........... on second thought.....it's better to have small mics hanging down that are properly aiming at the zones.

The best theatre audio I heard was at the Royal Shakespere Theatre in Stratford upon Avon. Those guys have it down!
 
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You're not likely to have a director willing to change or modify his blocking to allow for zones like that for good mic pickup. Unless its something specifically done for video, the director's gonna care about what's seen and heard in the auditorium and "sorry, but you'll have to make do" is all the video guy is likely to hear. Trust me, I've been there...

Go to a rehearsal and see if you can create your own zones using the blocking already in place.
 
The PZMs sound like a good, practical solution. You might want to try hanging an omni mic from the ceiling in the center of the stage as a backup. If it works, you may be able to mix the omni in with the PZMs. I really doubt the mics will be close enough together for phasing to be an issue.

Do not mic one actor without micing them all. And, for the love of GOD, don’t tell the producer that idea (micing one actor and not the others)! They’ll think its brilliant and make you do it and you’ll be in hell.

Whatever you do, try to test it at a rehersal. If you can't get a rehersal, test it ahead of time without the actors. You'll be glad you did.
 
Ok decided to go overhead with 8 Schoeps MK4 s. The action takes place all over the place in this unconventional theatre and I honestly don't think i will be able to cover it all but i will get close. I will let you know how it goes.
 
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