So it's come to this.

[Chris Santucci]

I'm not sure what to think of the new model for Indie film finance. I seems everyone and their brother is on Kickstarter or IndieGoGo these days, begging for donations for a film. I think I must know like 6 people currently seeking funds this way and I'm feeling a little queezy about it.

It used to be, a filmmaker would either charge up their credit cards or would go out and find investors. Now unproven filmmakers are literally begging for money to finance micro budget film projects at a time when micro budget films are a dime a dozen.

If it's a student film, I could see it - asking for donations. But I'm not sure how it's going to affect the future of Indie film finance when more and more people get wind of these finance platforms and people become sick of being harassed to donate money for films (and films that get made and go nowhere).

To date, has there been a success story of a Kickstarter funded film? I'm all for funding the arts (up to a point...), but I'm starting to get that feeling I get when approached by a wave of panhandlers on the street, and I'm not liking it.

Where's the discipline and ingenuity filmmakers used to have? Where's the self sacrifice? I mean, come on man! Get your team together on a project, establish a budget, and go work for a year and save up your moneys to finance your own damn film. Right?

 

[Rick Burnett]

The production crew I work with talked about this recently and I feel the same way as you do. It's no different than the plethora of people who've asked me for money donations and they can give me producer credit in their film. No thanks. We don't do this because we feel it comes across as panhandling for your film and I don't like when people ask me for small amounts of money to help their film, so I wouldn't do the same to others.

Do I think it is horrible? No, I think it is a neat idea, but with most neat ideas, I think that it's just going to get abused and people are going to get rubbed wrong about productions that never finish (or start). Locally, a person I know threw like 3 benefits for his film and after over two years, has still not shot a single second of it. A lot of people around here who wanted to help are very much put off. Imagine if I asked for the same thing now. I look at these things in this light.

For my own short I'm producing, I've just put off filming for a year and a half. I've been saving up, collecting props, equipment, talent, doing favors to call in favors because at the end of it, I want to know that I put a lot of my own effort into my art. I know from a personal perspective it will push me harder. But, everyone has their own system.

My two stops anyways

 

[Zblock]

Absolutely. I agree.

 

[Martay]

Where's the discipline and ingenuity filmmakers used to have? Where's the self sacrifice? I mean, come on man! Get your team together on a project, establish a budget, and go work for a year and save up your moneys to finance your own damn film. Right?

Right. You're right. This is what I did with Step Off (formerly Battle). Myself and my producing partner had saved as much money as we could from some script assignment work we had gotten in 2008 and 2009 in order to finance our own movie.

I have contributed to a few of these campaigns and think it's a neat idea and feel like some films are unique enough to deserve the shot at crowd-funding. However, most of the projects are unconvincing and do smack of panhandling of a sort.

I will say that it's really not too different from the old way. I always shutter when I hear the stories of people who've invested in movies with so-called filmmakers who didn't know what they were doing and the films go unfinished or are just plain awful and never go anywhere. I regret not meeting those investors BEFORE they got taken...at least if I'd have gotten that money, they'd have a finished film and one with some production value and likely some accomplishments (festival, distribution) if not some recoupment of their investment.

It's just a new way to skin the cat. I think it'll balance itself out just like it always has.

In the interim...I give to some and ignore most of the requests I get from kickstarter, indiegogo, etc.

-Martin

 

[Chris Santucci]

Locally, a person I know threw like 3 benefits for his film and after over two years, has still not shot a single second of it. A lot of people around here who wanted to help are very much put off. Imagine if I asked for the same thing now.

Uhhhh, yeah. Exactly. That stuff gives filmmakers a bad name. I've seen so much resistance from people who had been part of failed films as investors who would just say - "We did that once and it didn't work." The doors get closed when the discipline isn't there and people with potential funding get turned off. And then I suppose it IS forcing filmmakers to either beg more or up their game and seek out real film investors.

Myself and my producing partner had saved as much money as we could from some script assignment work we had gotten in 2008 and 2009 in order to finance our own movie.

There you go! There's a discipline there and a *commitment* that would speak in volumes to anyone you might approach for additional funding. Sacrificing your own money and taking the time to accrue funds, means you yourself are far more invested in your film than someone who just puts up a half-assed pitch video online promising the best film ever made and asking for thousands of dollars in donations.

"Excuse me?!?!?" "WHO are you?" "You've done WHAT, exactly?" "Nothing?"

No thanks.

 

[Tom Wills]

I completely agree with feeling put off by these things. I can understand for really small indie projects asking for a few hundred, or maybe a couple of thousand tops, but there's one film I know of where they made a 1 minute promo, and are asking for $32,000. It's one thing to ask for a few bucks here and there from people who either know you, or want to support the arts, but when you're asking for the kind of money that some people make in a year, and not a single person who donates has any way to recoup their investment, it just seems like swindling. Astoundingly, they already have almost $10,000 pledged.

I guess that's good for them, but I wonder about the sanity of people donating that kind of money, for very little in return.

 

[Martay]

I agree with you guys in the sense of many of the requests are ridiculous and worse, fairly lazily put together. And I would not give to those folks.

I've given to people whose past work has impressed me, or friends who I know will complete the projects in question, and ones that are being realistic with the needs they're asking the money for.

I've seen plenty of unrealistic requests like you guys have...and those will get NONE from me.

For example...one of my sweet spots as a producer is 1st Time short films. People who've never done anything want to see what making a movie is like. So I usually come in and can put together a really good team to get the film completed and with good production value on a low budget. Mainly, I work to ensure we can compress the schedule and I mix pros with skilled volunteers in just the right amount to approximate a decent Low Budget Set...so they get the whole sense of it.

For me, it helps me keep many of my crew guys paid a little during slow times so that they'll work for a little less for me on my main projects. The point being...I know what can be done with a small budget.

So, I see short films requesting 5 or 6 times the kind of budgets that I routinely turn into quality short films...and I have to ask questions...Why? Often it's crazy ideas that they should pay themselves, for scripts...fly in people from elsewhere...all kinds of idiotic things that you would NEVER do if you really wanted to get a short film done.

If I don't think the folks requesting have sacrificed anything and are asking for $ to make it a luxury production...then I'd stay way away from those project.

However, in the sense of being able to expose a project to people in many areas at once, who might believe in a good project to give a little (and I'm not breaking the bank with the projects that I've donated to)...then why not.

-Martin