Smallest moving GG solution yet???

Final pricing on the rails, support, adapter are still to be tweaked. I've set them higher than I think the price in production as I'd rather lower them, than raise them at this point.
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As a potential customer I don't know if I am convinced? I mean there are so many choices out there. It seems from the footage the B35 is amazing! although in it it's price range is a test and tried cineadapter. I am not trying to start a flame war. I am looking at comparisions to make an informed purchase. I understand the CODB but I also work hard for my money. I would be disapointed if say I ordered one and six weeks later PC costs come down and the B35 is as cheap as the Letus. I know in selling cars,homes, etc. it's best to start high and go low.
Combine all the Brevis features together, and I believe you will find it untouchable at its current price point. A similarly equipped M2 is $1495. The M2 does not however have internal rechargeable power, shield optics for dustproofing, is bigger, heavier, and will take much longer to setup.
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Redrock quote:
"Cinematographer's Bundle For professional filmmakers and cinematographers who use cinema lenses (such as Cooke, Arri, Zeiss, etc.), require all the components of a M2 system, and want the added convenience of a carrying case and AC adapter"
For me there's no question if I was going to purchase this. I am purchasing this to use high quality lenes.
Although the "dustproofing, recharge batts, case, ac adapter" is a case I can consider.

It just may be a case of apples to oranges but in the terms of cost I don't want to be left holding the bag.
 
Important, Z1U and FX users, please read:

Z1U Focus Test - NEGATIVE

I just performed a test using the focus chart provided at the brevis website. I followed all specifications. I measured the focus chart with a ruler to make sure it was printed to spec. It was. I taped the chart to a wall, and measured it's height in relation to my cameras height on a tripod. I then removed the hood from my camera, measured 50mm from the camera's filter screw mount to the adaptor.

I zoomed all the way in, and could not even get close to the lines on the edges without losing all focus. In fact, from no distance could I get critical focus and the edges of the frame. There was also significant barrel distortion.

I was shooting HDV 1080 60i with manual zoom and focus.

I made a small MP4 of my test here:

http://www.savefile.com/files/3580107

Please everyone, look over this footage and lets get to the bottom of this. I really like this adaptor and would like to purchase it. However, I have seen NO specs from the beta team or the manufacturer guaranteeing workability with any camera model. All I found was this test, which I performed. I recall a post somewhere that claimed someone was able to focus with an FX1. If this is the case, am I doing something wrong???

Thanks

EDIT: I suspected this may be the case, as the Redrock M2 requires Z1U users to get a spacer tube. I think the ground glass needs to be pretty far away for Z1 and FX lenses to focus.
 
IDV, the Brevis price will not drop a whole lot from where it is. I could write a volume on this, but if you review the feature set, components and economics of limited production, you'll understand why.

I understand where you're coming from, and that's cool.

Zoo, there are no live tests done, or implied with the Brevis on the Z1U. I do have a HC1 frame test suggesting that this cam will work without a macro (no surpise...37mm vs 72mm lens). I expect that the larger cams will require a macro, and it's strength is the only issue at this point. What you did say that made me happy, is that the frame was in focus, but that you lost focus when zooming. The common problem with some Sony cams, is that focusing on anything closer than 50mm can be an issue, hence the GG placement in the Brevis. Barrel distortion from video lenses is pretty usual at full wide. Most people will not know this until they try this test...it's also why 2 to 3x zoom in is not a bad thing when it comes to adapters.

The frame test is only a start...it doesn't replace a real test. There is no magic to these adapters. It's an image, 50mm from your filter threads. Like every other adapter out there, some cameras will require macros to properly frame that image. From your footage, I'd guess an achromat/macro in the +6 to +10 range will do the trick. If I could get every camera owner to post a clip like that, my life would be so much easier...thanks!

The only guarantee of working without a macro that I can offer at this point is the GS series of Panasonic cams, because that's what it is hanging off it right now. In two days, I can also guarantee what you will need with the XL1s and XL2, as I will personally test these with a production model. I wiould expect that most, if not all small lens cams will work out of the box with no added optics...and the bigger the lens, the larger the achromat/macro required.
 
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Based on the tests I've received so far, definitely. In fact, I don't believe there are any 72 or 82mm lenses that will allow this close focus framing...on any adapter. The idea of the beta group is to determine what strength on the multitude of cameras out there. A 72mm macro filter set (+1,2,3, 10) is under $30 on ebay, and will screw directly to your DVX threads. Those can be used to determine specs...once that is done, and I have results from everyone, I will be in a position to have custom achromats made. This is expensive, and requires volume orders...so I'm not spec'ing them until I know for sure what is required.
 
Thanks Dennis... I'll look into purchasing the macro set... I'll be wanting to shoot with the adapter as soon as it arrives.
 
With the single element (cheap) macros, you'll want to look for chromatic aberration if you're shooting serious production stuff. Many folks are using the +10 Asians, which are not corrected or coated lenses...and they're OK, but not nearly as good as a properly designed achromat.
 
Search ebay for 72mm macro sets...you should find sets for under $30. I consider these disposable.

For keepers, I'd suggest getting at least a circular polarizer and ND +6 filter sized according to your biggest 35mm lens, then get step up rings so you can use these filters on all your 35mm lenses. I have a 72mm CP, and ND and step up rings so I can use these on the bare camcorder, or any of my 35mm lenses. One set of filters therefore works on everything. I use these on the 35mm lens to keep the camcorder optically happy at F5-F8, while the 35mm lens is wide open. Using filters like this also keeps the diffusor from "blowing out" in very bright conditions where normally the 35mm lens would be stopped down.

The printed user guide shipping with the adapters has more info.
 
guskersthecat said:
With the single element (cheap) macros, you'll want to look for chromatic aberration if you're shooting serious production stuff. Many folks are using the +10 Asians, which are not corrected or coated lenses...and they're OK, but not nearly as good as a properly designed achromat.
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This is not good news at all. I really love the footage I've seen so far EXACTLY because it doesn't have chromatic aberration. If I need to use a bunch of macros and they'll deteriorate the footage than I'll have to think twice about this. I need broadcast quality or I don't get payed.

As for the test chart, after watching the one that was posted by Zoostory I'm not so sure I did it right. I taped the paper to the wall and moved the camera 50mm to the paper and then zoomes until the CIRCULAR LINES could no longer be seen!!! With that I had no problem in manualy maintaining focus...but if the square lines (37x25) are suposed to be out of the frame too than we might have a serious problem here. Should the square lines be out of the frame?
 
I just did the test again and IF the purpose of it is to zoom in until the square lines (37x25) are no longer in the frame...the FX1 failed miserably. The CIRCULAR LINES (50mm) are no longer in frame with no problem and everything is in focus (I don't even have to zoom in that much). What I'd like to know is if by some chance EVEN with the MACROS it doesn't work, will we have some guarantee? I mean, I truly love the product and it just keeps getting better. But IF I buy the Brevis35 and it doesn't work EVEN with the MACROS can I send it back or something like? I REALLY REALLY hope it works. I have GREAT hopes for the Brevis but as a buyer I'd like to cover all possibilities.
 
guskersthecat said:
Spartacus, the main focus right now is to get the adapters out there. A relay lens is not out the question, but definitely not currently on the "CAD" table. The GS400 BTW, is not an interchangeable lens camera.
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I understand that you´re using what you have, hence the GS400.
But who will buy a 1000$ adapter? The GS400 is around sth like 1300$, well I guess it´s more likely that DVX, XL series, Fx1, HD100 and HVX owners will look into accessories in that price range.
People need a system that works out of the box, not sth they´ll need to find whatever part (relay lens or macro) first, to make it work.
And I´m sure ALL customers will pay you for providing the right, proven and tested parts.


I've mounted up one of the production diffusers...and they're perfect. Hopefully I'll get a chance tomorrow to do some new footy with the new diffuser.
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Keep up the good work, looking forward seeing new footage!
 
Spartacus said:
People need a system that works out of the box, not sth they´ll need to find whatever part (relay lens or macro) first, to make it work.
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True, but finding out what these parts are is precisely the point of having a Beta group of users.
 
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petri63 said:
True, but finding out what these parts are is precisely the point of having a Beta group of users.
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Maybe.
I wasn´t talking about a Beta model though. Of course, if I participate in a beta test, I´m aware that I get a prefinished model. I´ll get it cheaper also or just sooner than others.
If I recall correctly, guskersthecat wants to "get the adapters out there" - not delivering beta models, but version 1.0s. (Right?)
But maybe it has become so normal to sell betas as finalised designs that no one will complain...
 
I see your point, but I think the point in having a beta group in this case was to know, among other things, what will be needed by the different camcorders to work with the adapter.

I can’t speak for Dennis, of course, but again I think he also mentioned that he was considering the possibility of offering quality achromats (not macros) for those camcorders that will need one.

Rawfa, how far the FX1 has to be from the rectangle to achieve focus? Could you try this: start at 50mm, zoom as much as you can while retaining focus, and then back up the camcorder a few millimiters, and then retry to zoom just inside the rectangle, until you can achieve actually do it. That would be quite interesting to know.
 
Spartacus said:
Maybe.
I wasn´t talking about a Beta model though. Of course, if I participate in a beta test, I´m aware that I get a prefinished model. I´ll get it cheaper also or just sooner than others.
If I recall correctly, guskersthecat wants to "get the adapters out there" - not delivering beta models, but version 1.0s. (Right?)
But maybe it has become so normal to sell betas as finalised designs that no one will complain...
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I'm not sure what you want from Dennis....

There is no universal design that will work with all camcorders. Making a different model for each camera that'll work out of the box is just silly and more expensive.

We beta testers will get a *finished model* and report back to dennis on what macro we needed to use to be able to focus as close as needed. He'll then update his site so buyers no upfront which acromat they'll need and maybe make his ecommerce program have "bundles" where you can select which camera you have and it'll ship with the adapter and the appropriate achromat + rating.

The adapter is finished, it's just a matter of finding out what each camera needs to work with it. Some will work out of the box, others will need macros. The only way around this would be to make a Brevis model for every single camera out there....prohibitively expensive and silly when a macro lens fixes the "issue" (whcih really isn't one IMHO).
 
Can anyone tell me if in the test I have to be able to zoom in until the square lines are no longer in frame? Or do I have to zoom in until the CIRULAR LINES are no longer in frame? Depending on the answer I'm gonna have to start looking for a good achromat...which is not easy to find here in Barcelona and if I'm gonna need to order one from abroad I'd like to do it asap so I won't have to wait when the Brevis gets here.
 
When I did the test I zoom till the square lines where gone. I needed a +10 Asain to get focus.
 
Guys, the 25x37 frame in the test simulates the Brevis diffussor. In other words, that is your projected 35mm image. That is the image you are recording. You must zoom in on it so that your camera is recording the projected image...

The beta group's only purpose is to determine macro strength for the larger cams. For that, you are being paid essentially $250 dollars. I have taken care of close focus and internal vignetting distance in the design.

Here are 2 truths about every large lens camera in existence, which applies to every adapter on the market, current or future:

1. You will not be able to zoom and focus on a 24x36mm frame from any distance with your camera. Move it too close, your cam can't focus, move it farther, you can't zoom in enough to maintain focus.

2. You will need a macro for any adapter present or future that uses a 24x36 frame size. An achromat is just a macro minus the chromatic aberration.


I have a lens manufacturer waiting for my specs on size and strength for an achromat..which I've mentioned before in this thread. These are a 2-3 week lead time and will be made available to any customer who owns a Brevis, at my cost (under $100). Alternatively you can purchase a Century achromat for $300. In the interim, a $30 set of ebay macros will do the job. Rawfa, do not spend money an an achromat. You will spend $300 or more to get one, that I can have made for under $100. By all means, pick up a cheap $30 set for testing. I will be provding quality coated achromats to existing Brevis users, for well under $100.

Posting NEGATIVE, IT WILL NOT WORK...is misleading, and alarmist. So please, let the beta group do it's thing, and by the time the balance of the 25 units are ready for sale, I will know exactly what you need for an achromat. Ok? If you're shooting with one of the smaller cams, I can say with some confidence that you will not need a macro.

So like Forrest Gump, that's all I have to say about that. The sky is not falling.
 
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