Small Diaphragm Condenser Outdoors

Eric Coughlin

Eric Coughlin

Veteran
I just got a Schoeps CMC641 and a Sanken CS-3e. From what I've read, shotguns are generally better outdoors, but some use small diaphram condensors outdoors instead of a shotgun. Most seem to agree that the Schoeps has better sound quality when in the right conditions than the Sanken or other shotguns in the right conditions. When would be a proper time to use the Schoeps outdoors? In quiet outdoor environments when the mic can get close?

I got a Rycote S-Series 330 for wind protection which is sized for the Sanken. How suitable is this for the Schoeps? Would a Baby Ball Gag be much improvement over the over-sized 330 Rycote? If there's no wind outside is using just the B5 Pop-Filter ever sufficient for outdoor use? I don't have a Cut 1 Low-Cut Filter and am recording audio into a C100 camera, Tascam DR-40, or Zoom H6, and I'm unsure of the quality of the low cut filters in them.

On the flip side, I've gathered that the Sanken CS-3e is better indoors in noisy environments and when the mic can't get as close. The Sanken CS-3e I got didn't come with a windscreen; when indoors should I use a basic windscreen (like this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/456605-REG/Sanken_CS_3FW_Foam_Windscreen_for_the.html) to protect from wind when the boom swings around and then take it off for static shots?
 
There is no absolute rule about using certain microphones in certain locations. Very much depends on WHAT you are recording and HOW.
Without knowing WHAT you are recording, it isn't really possible to answer your questions adequately.
Are you recording scripted drama? "Reality"? Sound effects? Nature footage? These all have very different techniques.
Are you recording audio on its own, or audio for video? Is the mic on a boom? etc. etc.
Please fill in the missing pieces of the picture so we have a better notion of what you are trying to do.

Actually, both the CMC641 and the CS3e are "small diaphragm", but the size of the diaphragm is not the important factor here.
The more important factor is the directional pattern, the CMC641 being a classic hyper-cardioid, while the CS3e is a "shotgun", or more technically a multi-capsule line-array + pressure gradient microphone.

It is likely that the smaller Schoeps CM641 fits inside the Rycote rig. Whether it is "suitable" depends on the conditions where you are operating. Recording in the still air of a dense forest will not need nearly as much wind protection as recording on the super-windy Barrow Island or Mt. Washington, or in a hurricane.

I don't see what would be the point of getting an additional foam windscreen "gag" for the CS3e if you already have the Rycote rig?
 
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Generally I'm filming interviews and b-roll. B-roll could be a variety of things, but I don't often do scripted dialog scenes with much movement; that's not to say I won't ever do that, just not much at this point.

So primarily, I'm talking about interviews, and would be interested to hear what other conditions (e.g. narrative) a small diaphragm condenser mic is appropriate for outdoors.
 
Again, the size of the diaphragm (small vs large) is a secondary issue and typically not that important in this kind of discussion.
What kind of mic you use is very dependent on the signal to noise ratio, and the working distance and nearby reflections.
A "shotgun" mic has better "reach" for longer working distances, but is more susceptible to wind noise and nearby reflections.
A hyper-cardioid mic is less susceptible to nearby reflections (typically indoor ceiling and walls), but has less directionality and "working distance".
So it is a compromise and tradeoff-decision which mic to use for various situations.
 
We should have a new section for posts like these. "I just dropped $4,000 on microphones and now I want to know what to do with them".

Don't mean to seem harsh but maybe you ask these questions Before you go out and drop a pile of cash.

Nice mics though. The Schoeps absolutely needs wind protection. It is VERY sensitive to wind. It is also reputed to be finicky in humid locations so being in Florida you probably will need to pay attention to that.

You should hit the stickies at the top of the forum, they will cover a lot of basics. They may answer your questions and if not at least give you the basics to ask a question that has a better chance of getting a useful answer.
 
Yes Scott, my sentiments exactly, but kept my comments to myself to be.. polite.
That said, if the OP has the budget for that level of gear, a pro operator(s) should be hired.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
I just got a Schoeps CMC641 and a Sanken CS-3e. From what I've read, shotguns are generally better outdoors, but some use small diaphram condensors outdoors instead of a shotgun. Most seem to agree that the Schoeps has better sound quality when in the right conditions than the Sanken or other shotguns in the right conditions. When would be a proper time to use the Schoeps outdoors? In quiet outdoor environments when the mic can get close?

I got a Rycote S-Series 330 for wind protection which is sized for the Sanken. How suitable is this for the Schoeps? Would a Baby Ball Gag be much improvement over the over-sized 330 Rycote? If there's no wind outside is using just the B5 Pop-Filter ever sufficient for outdoor use? I don't have a Cut 1 Low-Cut Filter and am recording audio into a C100 camera, Tascam DR-40, or Zoom H6, and I'm unsure of the quality of the low cut filters in them.

On the flip side, I've gathered that the Sanken CS-3e is better indoors in noisy environments and when the mic can't get as close. The Sanken CS-3e I got didn't come with a windscreen; when indoors should I use a basic windscreen (like this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/456605-REG/Sanken_CS_3FW_Foam_Windscreen_for_the.html) to protect from wind when the boom swings around and then take it off for static shots?
Click to expand...

Gun microphones are also "small diaphragm condensers" - the only difference is the polar-pattern.

For outdoor use the Sennheiser MKH series are normally the ones used by professionals in the know as they are RF condensers - all others are AF condensers and are prone to getting noisy and crackly in the damp.

If you want a fuller explanation read this PDF.

So - for a super-cardioid, the Sennheiser RF condenser would be the MKH 50 or MKH 8050.

For an AF condenser super-cardioid, there is the Schoeps MK41 and derivatives, the Gefell M310, the Neumann KM185, etc... (these are the good ones).

I hope this helps.
 
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