SLR vs. Adapters

R

richardessig

Member
Recently I've been doing a lot of research comparisons between the canon d90, 5D Mark II and 35mm adapters. In a 5D mark II thread a production company is comparing the 5D Mark II to the red camera. The footage I've seen thus far for the SLR's is amazing. My question why would we(myself included) spend thousands of dollars creating a heavy awkard rig for motion images we can capture with an SLR now?
The fact that the 5D Mark II is even in the same disuccsion with RED is mind blowing. I'd like to hear your feedback to the pros and cons to what you all think about this emerging and threating(to 35mm adapter) technology.
 
the d90 is useless... rolling shutter, low rez, crap codec, aliasing
the 5d is also useless... rolling shutter, crap codec, 30p, aliasing... the ONLY advantage to an adapter rig is it's lowlight capabilities. but there are sooooooooo many other problems with it that make it useless in a proper film/TV environment.

sure if you had one specific project and knew the limitations of your equipment, you could make an awesome film on anything. but if you want to do more than one project, then you need a more versatile rig.
 
I would have to disagree with Patrick that the 5D MKII is useless. I have shot with it twice and have a friend who owns one and is doing some pretty amazing work with it. I would agree that it is the wrong tool for professional filmmaking though. I would never use it with clients, budgets and deadlines, it is kind of Voodoo to get it do give you the ISO and shutter speed that you want and it is almost impossible to obtain consistent, repeatable results with it because you have to trick the camera into giving some small amount of manual control.

The rolling shutter in the 5D MKII isn't really much worse than the rolling shutter artifacts in other CMOS cameras and it is better than the D90.

The codec is fine if you don't mind transocding it to an editing codec before editing. It is a mystery to me why everybody is so down on the 30P frame rate. Sure, it's not 24P but everything doesn't have to be shot 24P to look good. People seem obsessed with 24P and it is not the Holy Grail of frame rates. It works and is cinematic but I have seen amazing footage shot at 30P with the Canon.

I think the real question is what are you shooting? Are you a pro, making money or a hobbyist goofing around? I was interviewed by a DP last week who is shooting a real, high end commercial this week with the 5D MKII. And the clients told him that they WANT their $200k commercial to be shot on the Canon 5D MKII. He was asking me about it and I told him, as long as the clients understand the limitations and the workflow, go for it, why not?

There are also several features in production using nothing but the Canon 5D MKII. It is like any other tool, it has its limitations but it is also capable of amazing footage. But working with it can be a frustrating exercise and going through that with clients, budgets and crews on the line can be nerve wracking.

Dan
 
my feelings are once these slr cameras give us the specs we ask for, adapters will be extinct, no ifs and or buts about it. for those contemplating building a new profession on making adapters, do not soon quit your day job. I think in 2 years from now you will see the marketplace will be flooded with useless unwanted adapters. So for me to spend $5000 dollars for an adapter this late in the game wouldn't make since.
 
well, in 2 years from now you'll probably see adapters AND hybrid dslrs flood the market once the big company's spec up their prosumer cams.. Even if this does happen, you can still shoot films with an adapter rig and have it turn out great and I bet the audience will not notice. Afterall adapter rigs are being used, now, as a 35mm film alternative and getting away with it.

and anyways, 2 years seems way to long to hold off on filming because of tech.
 
Our industry moves almost as quickly as the computer industry. It is my opinion that almost every camera in use today will be extinct within two to four years. Doesn't mean they will be useless but someone will come out with a $5k camera that will be better than 99% of indie filmmakers need and we will look back on 35mm adapters, 5D MKIIs and HVX200s and laugh at them as antiques we used to use.

Cameras today really are computers with lenses so this all makes sense to me.

Dan
 
i think my sgpro will be out of date in about 2 years, just like my camera. things that don't go out of date are lenses, follow focus, matt box, filters, rails, shouldermounts, etc.... all those cost FAR more than the adapter!!!!!

dan, 30p is a killer for me coz i'm in PAL land :)
 
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The lenses we use on 35mm adapters are often decades old. Film cameras (motion) age quite well and hold their value. Digital cinema technology is advancing at an incredible rate, and it is very exciting and there are so many tools out there to choose from. But it doesn't necessarily mean that we will need new cameras every couple of years. My 6 year old computer still goes online, types documents, edits pictures. A DVX100 can still make awesome video for web and DVD. 35mm adapters will still be able to make sweet images in 5 years.
 
I really miss the Arri SR although I still have my K3. Never use it but still have it. I do miss shooting films sometimes but digital is getting pretty good I have to say.

Dan
 
My feeling about is, once the SLR have the functionality of a prosumer camcorder, these camcorders are in serious trouble. Part of the problem with getting the adapter as many of you know is what else is required with it, mattbox, rails, lens, etc. It now becomes much more expensive and difficult to get different shots becuase your rig is so large. Having the same image quality and controls with an SLR, why in the world wouldn't you choose the smaller device, not to mention you also have one heck of a still camera. I always buy equipment for what I want to do now. Buying for tomorrows technology is chasing a ghost. Right now I think prosumers outfitted with adapters have a slight edge, but that gap is quickly closing. I'd like to see next generation adapters be much smaller and, increase vibriant color quality.
 
I just sold my HVX cards and almost everything else video related but my lex with one mount. The lex is only worth 8-900 used and I've got it hooked up to an old FX1. The footage at 30f looks super good for the price. So I'm holding on to my cash to wait and see what happens in the next few months. I'd almost buy a 5D because all my shots are quite controlled but I'm holding out for more......NAB?? Red?
 
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Yeah, digital is great for many reasons. I only mentioned my Arri cuz it's nice having a format that is a known quantity, rather than lusting after future technologies. With work being as slow as it is for me I'm just re-evaluating what I have and what I can rent rather than dreaming about what's in the future which I can't afford for a long time. It is fun to speculate though on dvxuser - that's about all I can do for now :).
 
I was just looking at the new Zacuto DSLR packages. Kudos to Steven Weiss and co, the packages do look superb for filmmaking. A part of me though thinks that many DSLR users have it all wrong. One of the biggest advantages of shooting with a DSLR like the 5D MKII is that you are undercover. You can go almost anywhere and shoot amazing quality HD video and everyone will just think that you are a shutterbug.

Hang a matte box, rails, shoulder mount, FF and all of that other paraphenalia just turns everything, whether it is an HVX200 or a 5D MKII into a movie camera. Unless you have permits. security, actors, etc. to me, carrying around a rig like this is like painting a target on your back that says, "oohhh, look, he must be shooting a TV show or a movie. Lets go bug him and ask him what he is shooting".

The whole beauty of small camcorders and DSLRs is that they look like what the average person shoots with or at least close to it and you can go undercover and get shots that you could never get with all of the film tech hanging off of it. I even found this out when I was running around with the HPX300 a few weeks ago. I don't like getting bugged about what I am shooting and being a target for cops and security to bug me about permits, permission, etc.

If you are making a film, go for it but I guess I just shoot a lot more stuff on the sly and undercover and I like to look as innocuous as possible.

Dan
 
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puredrifting said:
I was just looking at the new Zacuto DSLR packages. Kudos to Steven Weiss and co, the packages do look superb for filmmaking. A part of me though thinks that many DSLR users have it all wrong. One of the biggest advantages of shooting with a DSLR like the 5D MKII is that you are undercover. You can go almost anywhere and shoot amazing quality HD video and everyone will just think that you are a shutterbug.

Hang a matte box, rails, shoulder mount, FF and all of that other paraphenalia just turns everything, whether it is an HVX200 or a 5D MKII into a movie camera. Unless you have permits. security, actors, etc. to me, carrying around a rig like this is like painting a target on your back that says, "oohhh, look, he must be shooting a TV show or a movie. Lets go bug him and ask him what he is shooting".

The whole beauty of small camcorders and DSLRs is that they look like what the average person shoots with or at least close to it and you can go undercover and get shots that you could never get with all of the film tech hanging off of it. I even found this out when I was running around with the HPX300 a few weeks ago. I don't like getting bugged about what I am shooting and being a target for cops and security to bug me about permits, permission, etc.

If you are making a film, go for it but I guess I just shoot a lot more stuff on the sly and undercover and I like to look as innocuous as possible.

Dan
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Yeah, living in Chicago something like the D90 is key. You can't sit on the subway or, heck, in a Starbucks with a video camera. Impossible. With a still camera, though, you might get a couple of initial glances, but even if people see that you might be taking a still photo, they turn away.

And the funniest thing is that since you're not shooting stills and holding the camera to your eye as such, you can be filming while looking like you're just fiddling.

;)

For staged scenes with actors, something like an EX1 with 35mm adapter is probably the best choice on the under 10K end. But DSLRs are SO versatile. You can literally walk around with it around your neck -- you see something that might work as coverage in your flick, you just point and shoot. Solid business.
 
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