Slow Motion W/water
- Thread starter MAMBO
- Start date
profnoxin
Well-known member
If you want it to look anything like it does in movies/commercials you need to use an extreme high-speed film camera. I just recently finished shooting a Bailey's Irish Cream commercial, and to get that droplet effect we shot with a Photosonics 35mm camera that could shoot at 500 frames per second. Do do that we had to use enourmous lights (Read: 10ks, 18ks) for a tiny little blender full of the liquid. Video cannot yet really do that kind of high speed, although there is a special video camera that can record 5 seconds of footage at 2000fps. The resolution looks like a web-cam, but it's fairly impressive what it can do.
Jay Rodriguez
Coffee Member
any tutorials on any of those applications to show how to do cool stuff like that?
Kevin Briggs
Well-known member
The best way I know is to shoot with lots of light, maybe a 1k? Use a shutter speed of 500 or 1,000. The reason you need the extra light is to replace the light lost in uping the shutter speed. What this will do is make your footage really crisp. You will be able to see the water much more clearly, whereas regular 48/60 shutter will look blurry. Last step is to slow it down. In my opinon 60% original speed look really good. Anything slower than that you start to see the footage start jumping from frame to frame. I'll shoot and post some footage today.
One more thing. It works best using a darker background with the light focused on the water itself. Use hard light...ie: don't use a difuser like a softbox.
I have never done this, but I will be shooting a music video soon with water playing a major part so I might as well do some tests today!
-Kevin
One more thing. It works best using a darker background with the light focused on the water itself. Use hard light...ie: don't use a difuser like a softbox.
I have never done this, but I will be shooting a music video soon with water playing a major part so I might as well do some tests today!
-Kevin
Kevin Briggs
Well-known member
MAMBO said:
Here are some grabs:
I'll post the video soon.
KevinZanit
Active member
There is no way around it, you need high frame rates for good slow motion.
Here are some frame grabs from a project I did a while ago.
These were all 1000 fps, 45 degree shutter.
These are compressed jpgs, pre color correction, so they look real dull, but the full resolution images have great snap.
Another funny picture from some high speed work:
This was from a Cadillac commercial. A water drop hitting the shift knob at a 1000 fps. A 12k PAR right up against the windshield. Eventually melted the glass!
Kevin Zanit
Here are some frame grabs from a project I did a while ago.
These were all 1000 fps, 45 degree shutter.
These are compressed jpgs, pre color correction, so they look real dull, but the full resolution images have great snap.
Another funny picture from some high speed work:
This was from a Cadillac commercial. A water drop hitting the shift knob at a 1000 fps. A 12k PAR right up against the windshield. Eventually melted the glass!
Kevin Zanit
Kevin Briggs
Well-known member
Thanks Kevin those look great. I'm sure that if MAMBO could afford a camera that did 1000 fps his dilema would be solved. I think his intent is to find out what he can do with his DVX to get the best image possible. I did this setup and put the vid on the net in 2 hours. BTW how did you get your start in commercials...School/Referal? I'd like to be doing real professional commercials some day.
-Kevin Briggs
-Kevin Briggs
KevinZanit
Active member
No question that the pictures don’t help him solve his problem, but they are good for comparing your tests to what he is simulating (500-1000 fps).
It’s great you were willing to take the time to do tests for him!
As for getting commercial work; it is really the same as getting music video or any other production work - Luck, timing, and talent. I don't do a ton of commercial work, mostly music videos and narratives, but I love shooting them. My commercial jobs have come from directors I have worked with in the past on other types of projects.
Kevin Zanit
It’s great you were willing to take the time to do tests for him!
As for getting commercial work; it is really the same as getting music video or any other production work - Luck, timing, and talent. I don't do a ton of commercial work, mostly music videos and narratives, but I love shooting them. My commercial jobs have come from directors I have worked with in the past on other types of projects.
Kevin Zanit
Kevin Briggs
Well-known member
MAMBO said:
I forgot to upload the video...Here it is:
http://media.putfile.com/misc50
Hey Kevin is the camera that can do 1000 fps digital or 35mm film? Also by filming at 1000 fps do you lose light at the same rate you do by shooting at 1/1000 shutter speed? One last question do you remember what your shutter was?
-Kevin
FaceTheSpencer
Active member
Some very interesting slow motion footage/information:
http://www.ultramo.com/
That building shot at 500 fps is astounding.
http://www.ultramo.com/
That building shot at 500 fps is astounding.
KevinZanit
Active member
The camera is called the Cinespeed. It is a high-speed HD video camera available through a company called Band-Pro.
1000 fps w/ a 180 degree shutter = 1/2000th of a second, we were shooting at a 45 degree shutter, so 1/8000th of a second at 1000 fps.
The camera is fairly expensive to rent (about $4000 /day + operator $400-$700 /day). But it is still cheaper than shooting film.
I have shot both high-speed 35 and video, and I really like this camera. The nice thing is the ability to check if you got what you wanted from the action instantly (almost). The downside is that the camera has a limited dynamic range compared to film, but still is workable.
Kevin Zanit
1000 fps w/ a 180 degree shutter = 1/2000th of a second, we were shooting at a 45 degree shutter, so 1/8000th of a second at 1000 fps.
The camera is fairly expensive to rent (about $4000 /day + operator $400-$700 /day). But it is still cheaper than shooting film.
I have shot both high-speed 35 and video, and I really like this camera. The nice thing is the ability to check if you got what you wanted from the action instantly (almost). The downside is that the camera has a limited dynamic range compared to film, but still is workable.
Kevin Zanit
Kevin Briggs
Well-known member
Kevin_Zanit said:
Hey Kevin,
I found the camera here: http://www.bandprodigital.com/cgibin/eDatCat/BPDstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=WR-CINESPEED
DEMO FOOTAGE: http://www.bandpro.com/downloads/bpd/wmv/WR-CINESPEED-400.wmv
What an awsome camera!!!
I just wanted to purpose an idea and see if you think it's possible, since you have worked with this camera. It seems to me that you could do effects similar to the matrix or the baileys commercial with this camera. If you were to rig it to a mechanical arm that could move the camera at a high rate of speed, say in a circle with it recording 1000 fps and then play it back at 200 fps so the 1 second of action takes 5 seconds when played back. If this mechanical arm could complete the circle in the one second with a super high shutter speed so the footage isn't blurry it might make for some really cool effects without having to rig up 35 motion or still cameras and then stitching/patching the 35 cameras together in post.
I know in one of Jet Lee's movies they filmed sparks over a green screen at 120 fps, slowed them down and then layered the fight scene with the sparks. It was really cool looking.
Might be a way for people to get a really cool look for a fraction of the cost.
You guys filmed at 1/8000 shutter...Is that why you need such insane lighting?
-Kevin
j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
Kevin Briggs said:
The problem that I see here is the motion control to move a crane arm 'fast' to circle the subject... not that it perhaps couldn't be done... just I would not want to be anywhere near the robot end of things moving at that speed...
profnoxin
Well-known member
Robotic Arm
Robotic Arm
Yeah, I think that the real problem would be not killing anyone, and not having your footage come out really choppy. On the the projects I've done where we've shot at extreme high speed (500-1000fps) the fastest I've seen the camera moving was either on a shotmaker car, which mostly only can do steady work moving in a straight line, or with two guys pushing/pulling the dolly in a circle on a circular track. The problem is that the guys then need to slowly bring the dolly to a stop, and stop the camera... then they need to heave their guts out for a few minutes before you can do another take. On these films we were typically shooting outdoors and augmenting the natural light with 12-18ks.
Robotic Arm
Yeah, I think that the real problem would be not killing anyone, and not having your footage come out really choppy. On the the projects I've done where we've shot at extreme high speed (500-1000fps) the fastest I've seen the camera moving was either on a shotmaker car, which mostly only can do steady work moving in a straight line, or with two guys pushing/pulling the dolly in a circle on a circular track. The problem is that the guys then need to slowly bring the dolly to a stop, and stop the camera... then they need to heave their guts out for a few minutes before you can do another take. On these films we were typically shooting outdoors and augmenting the natural light with 12-18ks.
Shawn Murphy
Well-known member
Kevin B., long time no see, nice pics, and thanks for running those quick tests, love the one with the blue cup (maybe because I have those cups too!). Remember, if you ever need a second camera I'm just down the road. ;-)
lukehumphrey
Active member
dvx100a Newbie question: what is the difference between fast shutter speed and a camera that actually records at a higher frame rate? I'm guessing fast shutter speed just gives you good stills and the other allows for smoother slow motion sequences? How does one get a good slow motion sequence out of something shot at 24-30p - wouldn't it just look jumpy because you are essentially just holding a frame longer?
Barry_Green
Moderator
All your guesses are correct. And yes, getting good slow-motion from 24p is difficult; a faster frame rate makes slow motion much easier to accomplish, and 24p is about the hardest to get good slow-mo from.
This thread over at dvinfo.net describes a process for creating smooth 40% slow-motion by converting from 60i -> 60p -> 24p, at the cost of some resolution.
I haven't tried this approach yet, although I've loaded up the indicated software. If someone else has already tried this approach, I'd like to know what sort of results obtained...
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=50375
I haven't tried this approach yet, although I've loaded up the indicated software. If someone else has already tried this approach, I'd like to know what sort of results obtained...
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=50375