Run&Gun
Veteran
- Welp…. Now we know why the price on SkyPanels got cut in half recently.
https://www.youtube.com/live/WBQwF9H...BvtI5am5J-BlSA
SkyPanel X
- Thread starter Run&Gun
- Start date
ahalpert
Major Contributor
that video link doesn't work for me. but here's the article on newsshooter: https://www.newsshooter.com/2023/09/13/arri-skypanel-x/
coolest light design I've ever seen!
coolest light design I've ever seen!
Run&Gun
Veteran
I copy/pasted from my post in General and it looks like it's just treating the three video embeds as pictures and the other YT link broke for some reason.
Run&Gun
Veteran
Lol. Mine had Arri written on it, too...
I've never been a big SkyPanel fan. Yeah, they're more or less the industry standard, but I always thought LitePanels (specifically Gemini's) produced better looking light and I preferred the all-in-one design with the power supply on-board. And it didn't hurt that they were less expensive. I like the boxier, more modular design of this and it addresses the power supply issue. One would presume that the light quality is better, now, but we'll have to wait and see some independent tests(I'd love to see a demo and sample footage of the Alexa mode, too)(I also believe LiteGear brought out a line a few years ago that had settings tuned/optimized to certain specific cameras/sensors). But I don't think Arri is going to get any more of my money for a while. At least not on lighting.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
This is interesting, from Newsshooter chat with arri reps:
I think the S60 was the original and debuted at about $6k? If that's true, then these lights might be available at less than midlife crisis splurge levels anyway.
I've never actually shot with a skypanel. My impression was they didn't necessarily compete well on price and features, although obviously Arri gear is always superbly designed and manufactured.
I haven't taken a super close look at the new skypanels, but I like the idea of the lenses for longer throw. Obviously it's never going to behave like a point source. But it could be a bit of a swiss army knife like a COB except that it's soft without modification and you can throw it if you want to. That would fit my priorities better because I more often soften my COBs than use them with a fresnel or reflector.
That being said, it would be groovy to stay in the Sidus Link world with as many units as possible.
https://www.newsshooter.com/2023/09/...l-x-first-look
I think the S60 was the original and debuted at about $6k? If that's true, then these lights might be available at less than midlife crisis splurge levels anyway.
I've never actually shot with a skypanel. My impression was they didn't necessarily compete well on price and features, although obviously Arri gear is always superbly designed and manufactured.
I haven't taken a super close look at the new skypanels, but I like the idea of the lenses for longer throw. Obviously it's never going to behave like a point source. But it could be a bit of a swiss army knife like a COB except that it's soft without modification and you can throw it if you want to. That would fit my priorities better because I more often soften my COBs than use them with a fresnel or reflector.
That being said, it would be groovy to stay in the Sidus Link world with as many units as possible.
cpreston
Veteran
I have an S60 that was my primary key light for awhile. It was replaced by a Prolycht 675 just because the Prolycht weighed less and was quicker to setup with the integrated ballast and easier to use softbox. The S60 was always a more efficient soft source than the COB light, though, since you didn't need as much diffusion and area to get a softer source from a panel light.
All that to say that I will happily go back to using Skypanels now since I think the X is a significant step in the right direction. If the lenses on the Hyper Optic are actually as efficient as I hope, they will put the COB and their fresnels to shame. My problem with the COB's is that they never actually acted like a point source. You couldn't get a decent barn door cut a COB with a fresnel attachment and the fresnels were big and bulky and became less efficient as they were spotted. I realize that the COB fresnels were far more efficient than the old bulb based fresnel lights, but those lights could actually act like point sources. The Skypanel X looks like it will throw light much better than a COB, so you have a both a better soft source and a better bounce source with the Skypanel X. The only thing a COB might do better is with a well designed Leko attachment for patterns and hard cuts. The COB might also be better for flares and hard sources that need a specific beam angle. In any case, if I never see another hyper reflector on a Bowens mount, I will not be disappointed.
All that to say that I will happily go back to using Skypanels now since I think the X is a significant step in the right direction. If the lenses on the Hyper Optic are actually as efficient as I hope, they will put the COB and their fresnels to shame. My problem with the COB's is that they never actually acted like a point source. You couldn't get a decent barn door cut a COB with a fresnel attachment and the fresnels were big and bulky and became less efficient as they were spotted. I realize that the COB fresnels were far more efficient than the old bulb based fresnel lights, but those lights could actually act like point sources. The Skypanel X looks like it will throw light much better than a COB, so you have a both a better soft source and a better bounce source with the Skypanel X. The only thing a COB might do better is with a well designed Leko attachment for patterns and hard cuts. The COB might also be better for flares and hard sources that need a specific beam angle. In any case, if I never see another hyper reflector on a Bowens mount, I will not be disappointed.
^ That’s interesting.
There are certainly LED COB lights out there with fantastic optics through their fresnels. Fiilex Q series, Dedolight DLED series, the mini-bowens mount Nanlites with their small projectors and fresnels, Godox s30 and s60 focusing lights and now the new Astera Pluto and LEO fresnels all work well. Obviously these are mostly lower powered units with smaller COB chips.
I think the issue with LED’s and optics really begins when you push the power upwards of 500watts and the size of the LED COB begins to grow. As you mentioned all of the accessories get substantially bigger to compensate and the shadows will never be as crisp as a true point source.
I still prefer the flexibility of point sources over panels. With a good projector you can control the exact size and shape of your bounce for use with CRLS / lightstream or just to just fine tune the level of softness just by moving the shutter blades when pointed at a bounce.
There are certainly LED COB lights out there with fantastic optics through their fresnels. Fiilex Q series, Dedolight DLED series, the mini-bowens mount Nanlites with their small projectors and fresnels, Godox s30 and s60 focusing lights and now the new Astera Pluto and LEO fresnels all work well. Obviously these are mostly lower powered units with smaller COB chips.
I think the issue with LED’s and optics really begins when you push the power upwards of 500watts and the size of the LED COB begins to grow. As you mentioned all of the accessories get substantially bigger to compensate and the shadows will never be as crisp as a true point source.
I still prefer the flexibility of point sources over panels. With a good projector you can control the exact size and shape of your bounce for use with CRLS / lightstream or just to just fine tune the level of softness just by moving the shutter blades when pointed at a bounce.
cpreston
Veteran
Almost all of my work is in corporate interviews with windows and city skylines in the background. My ideal lighting is a lightweight, compact softbox, and hard, shapeable lights for the background. All I really want is RGB replacements for a K5600 Bug and JoLeko lights. LED's right now aren't a good replacement for either of these because the weight and size just gets too high for the amount of power that I generally need available. Also, COB's are relatively inefficient in both a softbox and a leko. They work great for book lights with the hyper reflectors, but that's not really my style.
What I actually wish somebody would make is an RGBWW Corncob style light at 500W or greater to put into a softbox. Something similar to a Bug or Chimera triolet. I am guessing the heat management and weight makes that impossible, but it would be a nice option to have.
It can be a bit frustrating that most of the innovation of the more affordable brands is going into making lights bigger and brighter and heavier and heavier.
Fiilex has a new dedicated RGBW projection light called the G3 but it's only 90w. They have the dense matrix technology to keep the size of the COB down, so the optics are usually great on their lights. The Astera Leo and Pluto are also interesting in that they use 'light pipes' to improve the optical efficiency of the COB in the native fresnel and projector.
Have you seen the Cineo R15? I wonder if Cineo could take the water cooled Corncob style light engine from this fixture and turn it into something specific for softboxes?
ahalpert
Major Contributor
What are the light pipes? I see it mentioned on the site but i can't see what's going on in the pictures. Looks like a normal cob with fresnel to me. Here's the leo
What do you think are some other COBs that cut well with barndoors and generally have crisp shadows and an even beam? Dedos? Who's the best?
Tangentially, I just got an amaran 60x s and didn't realize how small the emitter is. Need to measure it but I think it was about the size of a penny. Obviously because it's only a 65w light. But having such a small emitter could come in handy
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In that picture you’ll notice that you’re not looking directly at the COB but some sort of semi-diffused clear glass or plastic. I’m assuming it’s a form of fiberoptic or polished reflector pipe that channels the light from the actual COB forwards to the front face of the light. It’s becoming common to have multi-colour chips recessed like that. Overall it’s great to see how small the source is on the LEO, given it’s 250watts surely helps.
Fiilex and Dedolight are the ones that come to mind. It’s often best when they are designed as a fresnel style fixture from the start. I know Fiilex and Dedolight both put a lot of effort into the optical quality. Neither brand will be the brightest output per watt… but that’s not the point of those more precise lights.
Nice! The small chips are great for some genuinely crisp shadows when you need them.
I recently invested in a Dedolight DLH1200D HMI and it has slightly sharper shadows than my 80w DLED7 but comparable output to a 1200w LED. Fantastic for crisp curtain and window textures in tight spaces - only has to be 1m or so away from the window for very sun-like textures. A 1200w LED would have to be backed up considerably to match that sort of clarity in shadow texture and then brightness would be much less.
With the current technology I find the sweet spot for LEDs to be around the 300watt mark for quite decent output and optics.
Ultimately though for many people the convenience of a high powered fully color tunable LED will trump considerations of optical quality.
Back on topic, I personally don’t really like when panels like the Sky X are marketed as a ‘hard’ source. ‘Narrow’ or ‘focused’ beam is perhaps more accurate. I wonder how far you would have to back it up to get a pleasing shadow through a window?
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
It seems that these lights are for gaffers/dps that dont get that bashing a 4k into a 12.12 is all you need!
Or a fake sun which is a fresnel far far back
Or fake practicals which is the apture box of 12 lego brick lights
Or soft panels which you can tape on a wall
--
Ive just been gaffing a feature and the other thing is that control - abiity to program is surely covered with these lights - but not given the priority that set wil actually desire..
Ive been on the slightly crap sidus link and the director are instantly blase with desire for a disco or indicators or whatever which sidus delivers to 50% of the quality that it should.
Its not a pro tool.
Or a fake sun which is a fresnel far far back
Or fake practicals which is the apture box of 12 lego brick lights
Or soft panels which you can tape on a wall
--
Ive just been gaffing a feature and the other thing is that control - abiity to program is surely covered with these lights - but not given the priority that set wil actually desire..
Ive been on the slightly crap sidus link and the director are instantly blase with desire for a disco or indicators or whatever which sidus delivers to 50% of the quality that it should.
Its not a pro tool.
Cristian Mihai
Well-known member
As a Vortex 8 owner....nothing to be impressed of, other than the high price....
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Supposedly the skypanel x will be price competitive
ahalpert
Major Contributor
there you have it, ladies and gentlemen -- $5750 for an X21, available now for preorder: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1787327-REG/arri_skypanel_x21_modular_led.html/specs
vs $5500 for a vortex 8 - https://www.adorama.com/oskcsv8ess....BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&utm_source=inc-google-shop-p
Vortex 8 draws 650w. X21 draws 800w.
I guess the X22 and X23 are actually just 2- and 3-light modular kits. which looks pretty juicy when you pack 3 of them together and I imagine is great for balancing your power load
rob norton
Veteran
It's more like $6800 with the hyper/yoke/power cable option. Not that it matters, I doubt many people will have trouble deciding between the two, with the skypanel x being the more sensible option.
Except it seems like Arri lighting isn't on a pedestal at the moment like it used to be. They need to convert as many claypaky (arri recently bought them) products for film work as possible, then they'll easily be back on top.
Except it seems like Arri lighting isn't on a pedestal at the moment like it used to be. They need to convert as many claypaky (arri recently bought them) products for film work as possible, then they'll easily be back on top.
Run&Gun
Veteran
rob norton
Veteran
claypaky logo?