Simplest, best, cheapest inline Phantom power supply

Okay, so the purpose of this discussion is going to change now.

Based on my research, it seems unlikely that I will find a battery powered solution for under $100. Additionally, I will be mobile a lot of the time and these power supplies are very bulky and therefore prove to be an inconvenience to me in that regard.

So, here's the situation.

I have a Sanken CS-3e - un-used.
I also have an ME-66.

I do not have an XLR receiver or power supply, so I am planning to power one of these mics and convert the audio to minijack and feed it into my sony recorder. This is a non-negotiable part of it.

So, I was originally planning to sell my sanken because the Me-66 can be self-powered, so it solves most of my issues. However, after some brief research I was once again swayed to keep the sanken because of the apparent difference in sound quality. Now, I know, audiophiles are going to go nuts talking about how they are in different leagues and all that jazz, but realistically, I've heard both and don't notice a huge difference in off-axis rejection and sound quality. So, my question is, overall, what sort of a difference are we talking about when it comes to comparing these two mics?

I've heard the ME-66 signal is noisy when operating off the battery in the K6. Is this very noticeable? To what extent compared to the cs-3e?

Because of budgetary concerns I was thinking selling the sanken and just using the ME-66 would be a good solution but if the sound quality is really that different in the long term, it wouldn't be worth it.

So I guess that's my main question. To anyone who has experience with both, can you describe the difference in sound quality in as detailed a manner as you can?

Thanks.

Edit: ... because if it is warranted, I will just sell the ME-66 and buy a separate high end recorder with that money and keep the sanken and the recorder as the audio solution. However, I dont want to do this just because I want to believe I have the best solution, when the ME-66 would provide 90% of the same quality for literally a quarter of the price.
 
This is at leas a more complete question. I can get an ME-66 new for $210 and used ..? $150 - $100 so I'm not sure what "high end recorder your talking about. You could get 1/3 of a H4n but that isn't a "high End " recorder.
edit. This it turns out is my error - that is for the capsule, so $550 new. Your still not going to get a "high end recorder for what you could get used for a ME-66 though.


Anyway to your Q. I have not worked with both so I won't talk about them specifically.

But words like "best' and such get problematic, as you found out, because they mean different things to different people. It's always a trade off but the bottom line is you or your client. If you and they can't hear the difference then there isn't much reason to go "better". You going into an unbalanced 1/8" jack in a consumer recorder. That is the weak link. The things that I hear negatively about the ME-66 may actually help you out in this scenario since the added brightness may help mask the noise in the mic preamp.

90% solutions are often not bad choices.

You didn't ask but you may need a special adapter to go to 1/8". The reason is that many of those 1/8" connectors are stereo with "plugin power". So you are going to want an adapter than can properly terminate the power and either put your mono signal on both tracks or properly terminate the open channel. You may have thought of this already but not having all the above terminated can cause some bad noise hiss problems.
 
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You don't know what recorder I'm going into.

All I want to know is the difference in sound between the ME66 and the Sanken CS-3e from people who know about it, in as much detail as possible, to the best of their ability.
 
It's not about being sorry. You're not answering what I am asking, and answering what you think I need to hear, with the assumption that I don't already know a lot of what you are saying and asking what I'm asking anyways. Just respect the questioneer and seek to quell their confusion, based on what they are asking. It is presumptious to suggest I should build it, then that my recorder will add noise, etc etc.
 
Decius, I am going to ask you to be civil in what you say. People are trying to help you, but from the very first post in this thread, you have been vague and now defensive/pedantic.

Noiz gave you a very good low cost alternative, and you said "No".

I gave you a low cost, yet dependable Phantom supply source, and backed up by Dave. You said "No".

When you ask people their professional opinions, they give you professional answers. This is not some Facebook chat site. Many of the people here make a living off of doing sound and they are taking the time to try and help you.

So, please just chill out, and maybe frame your questions in a way that we can answer them properly.

Asking what mic sounds better is completely a matter of choice, not only in your ears, but in the material and environment you will be recording in. When I go to set, I carry a minimum of three mics, so I can audition them on set for the best tonal quality for the environment. No single mic is the best overall.

So the question of which is the "better" mic, is a non-starter. Which one sounds best for you? It's your ears that have to make the decision, not any of us. I can rattle off a bunch of shottie's that are great mics, but which of them is the best? All of them and none of them, just depends on what and where I am using it.
 
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You are the one that began to cry about posting one link to one product that wasn't what I was looking for. Please don't criticize me as being "unprofessional".

I've, from the start, clearly stated exactly what I'm looking for. Both you and the other poster have done nothing but fill your need to assert how "masterful" you are at your knowledgebase, and in prioritizing that assertion have failed in "helping" me at all.

All of my conclusions have come from my research, not yours.

And you continue to try to help by saying what? Both mics can sound different to different people? Ya think?

What about base noise?

What about off axis rejection?

What about RF interference?

What about your personal opinion?

And you claim to be the professionals. Just because I don't have signatures and post my resume up and down every post, and claim to be a professional, that doesn't mean I don't know exactly what I want to know. Show people more respect instead of fanboying your own credentials around the place.

When someone asks "what is the difference between these two mics?" you answer that to the best of your ability, as a professional, cut and dry.

I am teaching you how to answer questions in a forum to make more efficient the sharing of information, both efficiently and politely, and you are criticising me?

Simple questions, professionals.

1) Low cost phantom power supply.

I answered that myself.

2) General/personal opinions about the ME66 vs Sanken CS-3e.

No help there quite yet. Maybe someone else will pipe in.
 
I think the point that Doc is making about asking which mic is better equates to an analogy I use whenever someone asks me, "which mic is better. Option A or option B?"

My answer is always this: "Get 5 production sound mixers in a room and ask them that, and you'll get 10 different answers".

Heck, go look at the discussion over on jwsound about people using the 416 or CS3e. http://jwsound.net/SMF/index.php?topic=6946.0
You'll find some guys prefer one over the other. Some guys use both for different situations.

You already own both microphones, right? Which one sounds better to you? Which one works best on a sound stage? Which one works best outdoors? Which one works best when boomed in noisy environments? Since have already said you don't think the Sanken sounds that much better than the Sennheiser, haven't you already kind of answered your own question? Since you already have both, you are able to take them both to a job and try each one out and see which one works best for the given situation you are in. If you have to know the specific differences about these two microphones, you can look up their spec sheets on the respective manufacturers websites, but that doesn't tell you how they will necessarily sound, and the only person who can say which one will work best for you is you. I will say that most people would consider the CS3e a significant step up from the ME66.

I think you have received lots of great advice and help. We have told you about products we use and what we trust to work every time. Now, if that doesn't fit your budget, that's one thing, but you have to understand that things cost money, and it's not up to you to decide what something is going to cost. It is what it is, and you need to make the decision on whether you are willing to bet your reputation on something that's cheap that might work, or something that is a little more money, but you know you can depend on all the time. You also have to look at it from the manufacturing point of view. Yes, a good quality phantom power supply that uses high quality components, and that is well designed may cost more than some piece of consumer electronics that has way more "stuff" in it, but at that same time, these products aren't selling by the millions because the market is a niche market. That's why things like the Deva Fusion and Nagra VI are expensive compared to something like an H4n (that, and they have REALLY high quality stuff in them and do way more than the H4n).
 
There's a part of me that want's to say "It's perfect, buy it." But that would not be doing anyone else reading this thread any good. If it has no reviews from professionals, and professionals do not recommend it.....what does that tell you? Sound engineers use what is reliable and trustworthy. We don't jump on fads. We are more focused on the results.

I am glad you brought up how I thought I was "masterful". I don't consider myself a master in sound, but I get paid pretty decently to do it, and I have repeat business. And I was willing to assist you, free, mind you. I could of blown you off as another audio wannabe, but I didn't. I gave you advice and tried to assist you.

You came here for advice, and when it was given, you basically insulted everyone's experience and knowledge (that they paid for with sweat equity) and they were giving it to you for free. How do you think that makes you look right now? But being polite, I won't say what impression you have given based on your attitude towards actual sound engineers, of which you are not one, apparently.

I am teaching you how to answer questions in a forum to make more efficient the sharing of information, both efficiently and politely, and you are criticising me?

Simple questions, professionals.
Click to expand...
Oh thank you, great forum master, please, teach us engineers how it should be done. Hey, you have the answers and you are schooling us, so you tell us what you need, since apparently, we haven't a clue about sound.

So, with what you just said, I am done trying to help you.
 
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Decius,

Regardless of how you parse your requests for information, for the most part, you are swimming upstream with how you want to obtain your audio. Responses guiding you to a more professional and reliable option haven't been well received.

So here is a decent option:

Sell the less than stellar ME-66 for a couple hundred, chip in another hundred for a Tascam DR-100, and keep the CS3e which will sound superb. In one fell swoop you have gotten rid of a rather unloved mic, obtained a decent recorder with phantom power, and eliminated the need for a silly-stupid connection for a world class mic. While this isn't the end all, it will very simply solve the swimming upstream.

Grant
 
Thanks for the opinion grant - sort of stuff I was looking for.

Finding a digital recorder was a major research project for me. I originally bought the Zoom H2 and after I got it realized the base noise was terrible on it (could have just been mine, but who knows). So I went and tried out a bunch of them for a few hours and settled on the Sony PCM-M10, which, in my opinion, is a fantastic, incredible wicked recorder. Almost no base noise, recordings are beautiful, and the battery life is so awesome it might as well be solar powered.

Because of this, I am not interested in getting another recorder. I don't need one, and unless I can get one for $100 the redundancy is not what I'm looking for.

Regardless, as to my original quest.

I researched the specs on the two mics. I have no way of testing them side by side because I have no XLR phantom power anymore (sold my DVX100). The biggest thing that stuck out was from reviews the base noise on the sanken is quite high for a high level mic. I checked the specs, and the base noise of both mics are almost identical (15db).

Since I am shooting primarily indoor, and my research led me to understand that most people don't mind the base noise becuase of it's superior ability to reduce surrounding sounds in outdoor shots (where base noise isn't as big an issue as quiet indoors) I felt that for indoor use, both the sanken and the me66 are not so different in their abilities to provide what I want. from that rationale, there is no specific reason to keep it since the opportunity cost, in dollars, is quite high. Secondly, I have to either get a XLR phantom (which as I've discovered is a pain, both to buy and carry around) or another recorder, both options I dont really want to do.

With the Me66, i use the K6 battery module, and I'm good to go pumping that sound directly into my sony.

This, coupled with the fact that their sound graphs are not so different - in fact, the sanken has built in low cutoff which I don't think I like (i'd rather deal with that in post) and appears to have been added to reduce distortions when someone breathes in the mic. The 90 degree sound reduction of surrounding areas look similar, though I will admit and assume the sanken is superior in that sense. They both cover the same spectrum of sound, and the ME66, technically, provides a more unmolested sound. My impression now is that the sanken is a great mic for outdoor shots, but for indoor quiet environments, it's not really worth the cost if that's mainly what you're going to do.

So, I went ahead and sold the Sanken for $1100 bucks. In the end, this was the calculation:

Keep the Sanken
+ better outdoor sound
+ marginal better indoor sound
- $1100 + $150 - 330 (mic + xlr power - sale profit of me66) = net loss of $920
- have to carry a second recorder/power supply

Keep the Me66
+ Self-powered
+ indoor sound close to sanken
+ $1100 (sale of sanken) = net gain of $1100
- marginally worse overall recording
- possible increased base noise due to battery power supply

So for a difference of $2k in opportunity cost, i think it was a good decision. I can just work a bit harder in post to try to clean up the sounds to cover the difference. Of course I don't claim to say that the mics are interchangeable indoor, but based on what I found, it is probably the best decision.

See, making these calculations takes information, information I was looking for. A majority of it was not derived here, and I post my conclusions for others to benefit from. Though I did benefit from the initial suggestion on the xlr power supply, the rest of it was just fluff without any real devotion to the question at hand. The same stuff "pros" always say without actually respecting the questioneer.

Regardless, hope my research benefits anyone else looking to make similar decisions. Check base noise, and compare the sound charts each company provides to get a real visual feel of the way these mics perform. A more expensive mic may provide you better sound, but if it's only 10% better for what you need, it may not be worth the price tag. And remember that a lot of sound can be tweaked in post.
 
Decius,

You made your decision, and per your rationalization, I hope your conclusion works for you. There aren't many folks here who would trade a CS3e for a ME-66, but whatever, that doesn't really matter. I own other brands of shotguns so I can't offer you first hand experience. I can tell you I have heard some really dreadful ME-66 samples, so based on that, it isn't a choice I would make (but that doesn't matter). With regard to the great wicked Sony recorder; if it doesn't offer the most basic of recorder features (phantom power), then however fantastic it is, it doesn't offer the features you need. I suppose my thinking is: considering that you had both mics in hand, I would have rented a recorder and done some side by side before making a decision. That would have been a pretty inexpensive test, under $50. The paper specs may have told you one thing, but what matters here is the ear. Good luck.

Grant
 
A reality check for folks stumbling on to this thread.

The ME-66 is a interference tube shotgun and will have some serious issues in reverberant environments, i.e. indoors. The Sanken is not and works quite well in indoor and reverberant environments. The "indoor sound" depending on what kind of indoors your in will not be close at all.

Evaluating anything based on manufacturers specs is a fools errand. It can be informative sometimes but generally only with the same manufacturers products. The reason is that none of them test the same way and many don't even measure the same things. "Base noise", by which I assume the OP means self noise is one spec that is almost impossible to correlate between brands. Beyond not really having a way to tell if the numbers relate in a practical way there is the noise quality. Some noise is much more of a problem than others.

Frequency response is one that is pretty comparable in that it's fairly standardized but you have to be careful even with that if your looking at cheap mics (not an issue here).

His conclusion is mixed. I agree that a marginal improvement, depending on your situation, may well not be worth the additional cost. But thinking you can "fix it in the mix" is a fallacy. Problems like are typical when using an interference tube shotgun in a reverberant environment are pretty much impossible to "fix" no mater how much money you have to throw at it in post. Self noise is pretty removable, unless its really loud compared to what you want to keep. And funky frequency response is only marginally "fixable" with the right tools.

However realistically if one is making the decisions laid out above then how likely is it that one is going to hire an experienced sound person with the tools that could "fix" some of these issues?

So while his choices may be right for him, or even you, I wouldn't base your decision on his rationale.

Also if you have followed the thread you will see that he actually got lots of very on point information. What he didn't get, and apparently needed, was someone to endorse the decisions he had already made.

When people ask questions on this board they generally get good answers, just not always what they wanted to hear.
 
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