simple Q h4n+ntg2 , works?!

C

Cinema-E

Active member
I am shooting a movie next week , if I use the Zoom H4n along with Rode ntg2 can I get an OK audio quality ?! , how?(0 knowlage in audio :) )

how can I connect the Rode to H4n and get the best quality , I tried MTR mode but didnt work well.

guys I need ur help :(
 
I'm not trying to sound snippy or critical but.....have you used the equipment at all?

Testing it on a movie isn't the best way to go about it and there are some things with the H4n that are critical, like the preamp (I feel like a broken record on preamps).
 
Please, please search through the audio forum and take a look at just how many threads already exist on this exact topic. Possibly one of the most common recurring topics.

In a nutshell the H4n preamps are not strong enough to boost the lower sensitivity that the NTG-2 has. Use an NTG-3 or other mics with the Zoom, or use a mixer/preamp between the NTG-2 and Zoom like a SD Mixpre or others.

Curently the third specific thread on the first Audio page here all identical. Plenty of good advice on those threads worth reading.
 
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Peternap said:
I'm not trying to sound snippy or critical but.....have you used the equipment at all?

Testing it on a movie isn't the best way to go about it and there are some things with the H4n that are critical, like the preamp (I feel like a broken record on preamps).
Click to expand...


well I tested it , to tell u the truth , this is my first time holding an audio recorder
our sound guy ditched us, well he wasn’t that good any way, in our situation u have to do everything ur self :).

I read through the manual and it wasn’t that helpful , the stereo mode gives u only L or R through input 1 or 2 ,I tried the MTR mode but I couldn’t get a good result .

1+1=2 ,very simple and direct I need numbers I need to know how to connect the rode and shoot with reasonable sound (can u get 24bit /96khz through XLR?) .

We also have a choice to get the tascam .

By the way we are shooting full HD

thanks for passing by :)
 
photonashville said:
Please, please search through the audio forum and take a look at just how many threads already exist on this exact topic. Possibly one of the most common recurring topics.

In a nutshell the H4n preamps are not strong enough to boost the lower sensitivity that the NTG-2 has. Use an NTG-3 or other mics with the Zoom, or use a mixer/preamp between the NTG-2 and Zoom like a SD Mixpre or others.

Curently the third specific thread on the first Audio page here all identical. Plenty of good advice on those threads worth reading.
Click to expand...

I did my friend :) but when u are blind and ur shooting next week , u just need someone to cross u the street . I searched and read but couldn't get what I need .

we are stuck with ntg2:)

using a mixer is not a choice I want it to be very light in the field this is way I love the 7D so much ,

I need ur advice on this , tascam or h4n , is there a big difference between the two

and which will get u a good quality with less headache .

thanks :)



 
Cinema-E said:
I did my friend :) but when u are blind and ur shooting next week , u just need someone to cross u the street . I searched and read but couldn't get what I need .

we are stuck with ntg2:)

using a mixer is not a choice I want it to be very light in the field this is way I love the 7D so much ,

I need ur advice on this , tascam or h4n , is there a big difference between the two

and which will get u a good quality with less headache .

thanks :)
Click to expand...

I don't know much about the Tascam but here are the basic settings for the zoom for what you're doing:

Rec format MP3 48 KBPS
Mono Mix On
Phantom On (assuming you're NOT using a preamp with Phantom Power)

Leave everything else at default. That will get you started.

Using that mic with no preamp will give you a very low level and when you bring it up in post, it will probably increase the noise level.

The Phantom power will cut yourr battery time to about an hour.
 
Cinema-E said:
...
using a mixer is not a choice I want it to be very light in the field this is way I love the 7D so much ,
...
Click to expand...

Is using a mixer not a choice because you CAN'T get hold of one or is it not a choice because you just don't want to bother with one? You need to obtain and use the right tools for the job, my friend, whatever they may be and no matter how inconvenient it may be.

There's nothing wrong with the NTG-2, it is perfectly capable of fine results when used properly. It's output level is reasonably high. The H4n mic inputs, though, appear to be a bit noisy and have fairly low gain. When you turn up the volume in post to get a comfortable dialog level, the noise floor comes up and you have hiss in the background. Proper boom technique can help, getting the mic close to the talent so the voice is picked up well is always a good idea. When recording the mic should be close enough to the talent that they could reach out and touch it without changing position if they wanted to - for a 'gun aim for about 24 inches between the tip of the mic and their mouth.

I disagree with peternap. Don't EVER use mp3 as your recording format. Record in uncompressed wave (.wav) format, 48kHz, 24bit. Uncompressed means you'll fill up the card faster but so what? The last thing you want to do is compromise recording quality in the interest of storage space - memory cards are cheap as dirt and you can always swap in a new one between takes when you fill one up. MP3 compresses by throwing away frequencies and altering the bitrate, both of which can cause headaches later. Going to 96kHz, OTOH, for dialog especially, is a total waste of space. You'll never hear any difference between it and 48kHz. About the only time 96k is used is for music and SFX recording.
 
Peternap said:
I don't know much about the Tascam but here are the basic settings for the zoom for what you're doing:

Rec format MP3 48 KBPS
Mono Mix On
Phantom On (assuming you're NOT using a preamp with Phantom Power)

Leave everything else at default. That will get you started.

Using that mic with no preamp will give you a very low level and when you bring it up in post, it will probably increase the noise level.

The Phantom power will cut yourr battery time to about an hour.
Click to expand...

which mode?!
 
Steve House said:
I disagree with peternap. Don't EVER use mp3 as your recording format. Record in uncompressed wave (.wav) format, 48kHz, 24bit. Uncompressed means you'll fill up the card faster but so what? The last thing you want to do is compromise recording quality in the interest of storage space - memory cards are cheap as dirt and you can always swap in a new one between takes when you fill one up. MP3 compresses by throwing away frequencies and altering the bitrate, both of which can cause headaches later. Going to 96kHz, OTOH, for dialog especially, is a total waste of space. You'll never hear any difference between it and 48kHz. About the only time 96k is used is for music and SFX recording.
Click to expand...

Good point!
 
Steve House said:
Is using a mixer not a choice because you CAN'T get hold of one or is it not a choice because you just don't want to bother with one? You need to obtain and use the right tools for the job, my friend, whatever they may be and no matter how inconvenient it may be.

There's nothing wrong with the NTG-2, it is perfectly capable of fine results when used properly. It's output level is reasonably high. The H4n mic inputs, though, appear to be a bit noisy and have fairly low gain. When you turn up the volume in post to get a comfortable dialog level, the noise floor comes up and you have hiss in the background. Proper boom technique can help, getting the mic close to the talent so the voice is picked up well is always a good idea. When recording the mic should be close enough to the talent that they could reach out and touch it without changing position if they wanted to - for a 'gun aim for about 24 inches between the tip of the mic and their mouth.

I disagree with peternap. Don't EVER use mp3 as your recording format. Record in uncompressed wave (.wav) format, 48kHz, 24bit. Uncompressed means you'll fill up the card faster but so what? The last thing you want to do is compromise recording quality in the interest of storage space - memory cards are cheap as dirt and you can always swap in a new one between takes when you fill one up. MP3 compresses by throwing away frequencies and altering the bitrate, both of which can cause headaches later. Going to 96kHz, OTOH, for dialog especially, is a total waste of space. You'll never hear any difference between it and 48kHz. About the only time 96k is used is for music and SFX recording.
Click to expand...


Well it is a bit complicated in our country, u have to sneak around every time u shoot , otherwise people will get all over u :)

With the 7d they think we are taking some pictures:)

Any way , thanks for the info , it was very helpful .

I want to ask u about tascam HD-P2 , do u recommend it ?!
 
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The Zoom is quite easy to use.

You can get a simple preamp, one channel, duct tape the things together and make it work. It doesn't sound as though you are really needing high quality if it's all run n gun style of shooting to thwart authorities.

As for what small single or double channel preamp to use, google. Many to choose from.
 
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photonashville said:
The Zoom is quite easy to use.

2 channel or Stamina mode only gives 44.1kHz/16bit.

You have to use 4channel mode to get 48kHz/24bit.

.
Click to expand...


is it possible to connect the rode through input 1 in 4 channel mode and set two channels to the input ?!

I don’t have the zoom to try , I borrowed it and gave it back , I have to decide now and get one.

Thanks for passing by
 
Honestly, I think you should buy a Marantz 661. A friend of mine found one used for about $450. Far superior to the Zoom. Fewer hoops to jump through in recording. The Zoom can work, I've used one for over a year on many projects. But I also felt I reached the point of maximizing what it offered and bought an Edirol R-44 and I'm much happier.

Marantz 661 is 2x the cost of a Zoom H4n
Edirol r-44 is 3x the cost of the Zoom.
 
our choices are h4n or tascam hd-p2 :(

you didnt answer my Q "is it possible to connect the rode through input 1 in 4 channel mode and set two channels to the input ?!
"
 
well I think I found a marantaz agent here in our country I just contacted them but they dont have this pmd 661 , they say we will contact japan and see , the process will take about two weeks , if it is much better than the h4n and worth the wait we will wait no problem .
 
photonashville said:
The Zoom is quite easy to use.

2 channel or Stamina mode only gives 44.1kHz/16bit.

You have to use 4channel mode to get 48kHz/24bit.

You can get a simple preamp, one channel, duct tape the things together and make it work. It doesn't sound as though you are really needing high quality if it's all run n gun style of shooting to thwart authorities.

As for what small single or double channel preamp to use, google. Many to choose from.
Click to expand...

That's not correct.
I hadn't changed settings for a long time so I went back and reset it.
You can get 48/16 and 48/24 in stereo mode.

You're going to run into all sorts of pitfalls setting it for 5 channel and using one external mic.
 
Peternap,

I have a Zoom in front of me. UNLESS a firmware has magically changed something, the Stamina/2 channel stereo mode is only 44.1kHz/16bit, no other options. To gain 48kHz/24bit you have to have the Zoom in 4 channel mode (meaning not in Stamina mode).

So did Samson make a firmware update along the way that made Stamina mode anything more than 44.1/16?

I have firmware version 1.40. I'll look to see if they have anything newer.

So there is a 1.60 firmware. Doing that now to see what if anything has changed on the sample and bit rate in Stamina mode.
 
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Just as I suspected, the current 1.60 firmware changes nothing with respect to sampling and bit rate.

So unless someone can show a photo otherwise, in stereo/Stamina mode, the Zoom H4n is only 44.1kHz/16bit, no other sampling bit rate options in stereo. The WAV/MP3 button is disabled in Stamina mode.

To get 48/16 or 48/24, 4 channel (NOT Stamina mode) is required. IN 4 channel mode, the WAV/MP3 button is enabled and allows 4 recording formats, 44.1/16, 44.1/24, 48/16, 48/24.

I've been using the H4n for 14 months and know it quite well for recording with external mics, lavs, boom mics.
 
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