Shutter speed - 1/30

A

Alcham

Member
Hi,
I'll make a documentary all year following children of a classroom (inside and outdoor following their activities ). I'll be alone to shoot, I'll use a DVX 100 B (Pal).
This will be my first work with this (such great )camcorder and in progressive mode. Off course, I've received the DVX book - wich is really helpful and necessary. So My question is simple : wich shutter speed do you recommend me to choose, in such a situation ? I think that I'll opt for the 1/25 speed in the CineLike mode (1/30 NTSC I guess) cause after reading many things, I don't really see the advantage to shoot in 1/5O... Need your lights.
Thanks.
 
I'm having the same issue, having just begun shooting a doc in 24P. I've been shooting with the "shutter off" (1/50th), and after looking at some of the footage I wasn't too pleased with the amount of strobing. I'm thinking about switching to 1/36th (for the most part...I'll be flexible in certain situations), but I'd love to settle on one main shutter speed so I don't have varying levels of strobing and blur throughout.

Does anybody have advice on this issue, specifically for mostly handheld documentary shooting?
 
Are you sure the strobing is due to the shutter speed and not shooting in progressive mode? The shutter in a camcorder is really just a measure of the amount of time a charge is allowed to build on the ccd, it's not a real "shutter".

I am making a doc now about the local fire department and I'm shooting interlaced. Shooting progressive for this kind of project with fire engines driving pell mell all over the towne just doesn't make sense for me. Why are you shooting it in 24p? Just curious.

J
 
i want a more cinematic look than interlaced video provides. i've debated it quite a bit, and i settled on 24p, since the subject matter does not necessarily demand rawness. the doc will have a 3 act structure and should play like a narrative in many ways. i go back and forth on this all the time, and with this project i decided on 24p.

i guess "strobing" is probably the wrong word. it's the stuttering, or as some have put it, "staccatto", that is bothering me. i'm having a hard time deciding whether or not to take care of this by using a slower shutter speed, and to what degree.
 
Part of the "strobing" or "stacatto" look, of course, has to do with camera movement. Obviously, you can't really control how fast your subjects move "across the screen" while shooting a doc, but you can control the movement of your camera. The DVX book has a chart for how long any object/image should remain on screen during a pan given the lens focal length. Of course, a wider shot allows for a faster pan, while a tighter/telephoto shot needs to move much more slowly to avoid strobing.

Don't know if this helps, but thought it might be something to consider.
 
dustino said:
Part of the "strobing" or "stacatto" look, of course, has to do with camera movement. Obviously, you can't really control how fast your subjects move "across the screen" while shooting a doc, but you can control the movement of your camera. The DVX book has a chart for how long any object/image should remain on screen during a pan given the lens focal length. Of course, a wider shot allows for a faster pan, while a tighter/telephoto shot needs to move much more slowly to avoid strobing.

Don't know if this helps, but thought it might be something to consider.
Click to expand...

what he said ;-)

What you are describing is the intersection of subject motion vs. 24fps imaging. The DVX book has some useful tips on how to minimize this, but it's essentially par for the course when shooting 24p. Shutter speed isn't going to eliminate this issue, as it's related to the number of frames you're collecting per second.

What about 30p? It's still progressive, without the staccato effect you aren't wanting. Just a thought.
 
if your at 1/50th there is no strobbing your just not used to seeing 24p video. 1/30th is a very slow shutter and your going to have some motion blur issues. unless you need to because of pour light I would advise against it i guess a 1/30th shutter beats gain.
 
Also, don't give up on 24p (or 30p). You'll learn to adjust and/or to accept that strobing will simply take place sometimes when you may not want it. If you get a chance, check out the film Iraq in Fragments by James Longley (he's on this board.) It's a documentary that was shot on the DVX and it has ALOT of strobing and staccatto images, but the director used that to his advantage. In fact, he increased the shutter speed so as to be able to open the aperature wider and get a shollower DOF (which also increased the "strobing").

Considering he won the Best Cinematography in a Documentary award at Sundance, I think the film makes a pretty strong case that "strobing" images can be a benefit just as easily as a detriment. It's all about how you plan for and use the images. "Strobing" images can lend a surreal quality - like in the doc mentioned above or in Saving Private Ryan. For that matter, you could slow the shutter dramatically and get blurred motion if that look somehow fit the emotion of the film. If the doc is about kids with ADD, by all means, have the "strobing" look! If the doc is about childhood depression, maybe smeared motion would work. If you just want "normal" motion, then set your lens a little wider and don't pan too quickly. You can also move "with" the motion by using tracking shots of a kid running horizontally accross the screen, for instance. Technically, the background will be strobing but the audience won't notice because the focal point (the kid running in this example) stays in the middle of the screen. Good luck and have fun!

p.s. - check this link to hear James Longley discuss his use of shutter, go here:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=78340
 
ive been asking questions about this issue for the last couple days in various places, and this is some of the best input i've gotten.

unfortunately, i'm not shooting a war doc (i can see why the faster shutter speed or "saving private ryan" look worked for iraq in fragments...i definitely want to check out that film), but i'm not giving up on 24p.

thanks so much for all the input.
 
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