Shutter angle/frame rate to avoid jitter

When the video was converted for the internet (when he uploaded it) is it not converted to 30 fps (or 60i).... Like television, where 24 fps doesn't REALLY exist... If you downloaded his video from the hosting site (instead of the actual file from his computer then it WOULD be 30 fps (or 60i), right?
 
gonzo_entertainment said:
When the video was converted for the internet (when he uploaded it) is it not converted to 30 fps (or 60i).... Like television, where 24 fps doesn't REALLY exist... If you downloaded his video from the hosting site (instead of the actual file from his computer then it WOULD be 30 fps (or 60i), right?
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I have no idea what Metacafe do, but files I upload to YouTube remain at the frame rate of the original file. Since what I was seeing is exactly what he described as his problem I put 2 and 2 together.
 
It MAY have changed, but youtube used to convert everything much as TV and SD DVD do. When you burn your film to a DVD it's not 24 fps. It's 24 fps inside a 60i wrapper. Youtube used to be the same, but may not be anymore.
 
gonzo_entertainment said:
It MAY have changed, but youtube used to convert everything much as TV and SD DVD do. When you burn your film to a DVD it's not 24 fps. It's 24 fps inside a 60i wrapper. Youtube used to be the same, but may not be anymore.
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Here's a YouTube test.

720p24 http://youtu.be/X0S7b4gdh2o

720p29.97 http://youtu.be/KfjHCpo57-g

720p59.94 http://youtu.be/cJAsWOr1j-4

Looks like the 60p file has been converted to 30p, but the 24p was left as 24p. Also, my normal 25p files are kept at 25p.
 
David Jimerson said:
No, you can make 24p DVDs. All Hollywood DVDs are (for the NTSC market, of course).
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I was always led to believe that a television and/or DVD player (until maybe very recently) cannot actually play 24p so 24p (or 25p) is put inside a 60i wrapper when it's encoded. I have shot a few commercials, part of that process was the cable company taking my 24P source and putting in a 60i wrapper so they could broadcast it.
 
David Jimerson said:
That would look exactly the same as having identical frame pairs.
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I think we might have a communication problem. :)

I assume you agree with these statements?

1/ 24p footage dropped on a 12p timeline will lose every second frame.
2/ 24p footage dropped on a 30p timeline will produce footage where some frames are duplicated in much the same pattern as I posted above.
3/ Exporting a 24p project with 24p source clips to a 30p file will produce much the same result as #2.
 
gonzo_entertainment said:
I was always led to believe that a television and/or DVD player (until maybe very recently) cannot actually play 24p so 24p (or 25p) is put inside a 60i wrapper when it's encoded. I have shot a few commercials, part of that process was the cable company taking my 24P source and putting in a 60i wrapper so they could broadcast it.
Click to expand...

Broadcast and DVD are two different things.

A standard TV needs the 60i stream to display, but that's not encoded on a 24p DVD. The 24p file has flags, instructions, for the DVD player to insert the pulldown on the fly if playing to a non-progressive TV. But the video itself isn't 60i.
 
Mike Warren said:
I think we might have a communication problem. :)

I assume you agree with these statements?

1/ 24p footage dropped on a 12p timeline will lose every second frame.
2/ 24p footage dropped on a 30p timeline will produce footage where some frames are duplicated in much the same pattern as I posted above.
3/ Exporting a 24p project with 24p source clips to a 30p file will produce much the same result as #2.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think I misread your post.

It would be good if the OP explained the whole process he used.
 
David Jimerson said:
With what, and how, did you export this?

Is the stutter in the original footage?
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I exported as it was imported. From Final Cut Pro, exported as Apple ProRes 422 codec at 23.98 FPS. I chose File->Export->As Quicktime Movie using current settings (same ones mentioned). On my system it feels like there's a stutter as well, but going frame by frame there is no dupe frame issue. I would assume that's a MetaCafe issue if any. I can't figure out how to download from MetaCafe to compare.

I shot this on an FS700, imported into Final Cut using Log and Transfer. So no changes to the raw material at any stage, unless there was a change done on the site. I uploaded the original video file here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/5t72op
 
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ebsseattle said:
I exported as it was imported. From Final Cut Pro, exported as Apple ProRes 422 codec at 23.98 FPS. I chose File->Export->As Quicktime Movie using current settings (same ones mentioned). On my system it feels like there's a stutter as well, but going frame by frame there is no dupe frame issue. I would assume that's a MetaCafe issue if any. I can't figure out how to download from MetaCafe to compare.
Click to expand...

If you play your raw footage, do you see the same jitter?
 
ebsseattle said:
I exported as it was imported. From Final Cut Pro, exported as Apple ProRes 422 codec at 23.98 FPS. I chose File->Export->As Quicktime Movie using current settings (same ones mentioned). On my system it feels like there's a stutter as well, but going frame by frame there is no dupe frame issue. I would assume that's a MetaCafe issue if any.
Click to expand...

Can you upload the clip to a file sharing site rather than a video site? That way we have hard data to assess.
 
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