So I learned there was an audio store on Maui (Bounty) and I rushed over in hysterics and bought a mic and XLR cable. I wanted the EV50 but they no have. I lunged at the Shure. Just to add insult to injury I spring for a pair of Audio Technica ATH-M30 headphones to monitor. Was all of this a mistake? I went out yesterday and taped with it all and heard non-stop hiss. I was praying I could remove in post using CS5 Premiere, or maybe Soundbooth, but have no idea how. Any comments or suggestions much-appreciated. (The NEX-VG10 has AGC that can't be shut off. It actually did well but again, the hiss. I had the BeachTec all the way up to 10 per the instructions, and then lowered it while recording to see if it would help, but no change, could still hear hiss.)
Shure SM58 + BeachTek DXA-4P + NEX-VG10 (vol set to 5) = HISS
- Thread starter olindacat
- Start date
A SM-58 is not a bad mic to have in your bag and is common for music purposes and podium use. It isn't an everyday go to mic for audio for video. The EV50 is a quality interview mic and has low handling noise and very good rejection, but the interviewee needs to eat it to get good results. I like the EV50 very much, but it is a task specific mic.
Grant
Grant
Gregg Juke
Well-known member
Yeah, unless there's something wrong with your 58 or your BeachTek (highly unlikely), it's probably your gain-staging (how you have volume set-up). You may want to try another XLR cable as a first level of trouble-shooting.
As to removal of hiss in post-- try recording _just_ the hiss (a bunch of it). Then, in your software, there should be a way to invert the waveform (check your manual or "helps" section).
Line-up the inverted waveform with the original, until the hiss disappears (this is called phase cancellation). Might not get all of it, but it should be significantly better.
GJ
As to removal of hiss in post-- try recording _just_ the hiss (a bunch of it). Then, in your software, there should be a way to invert the waveform (check your manual or "helps" section).
Line-up the inverted waveform with the original, until the hiss disappears (this is called phase cancellation). Might not get all of it, but it should be significantly better.
GJ
Gregg Juke
Well-known member
OK, sorry. Try this (I rushed a little bit in that post without thinking; sorry):
When you look at your soundtrack, it is a bunch of squiggly shapes on a time-line, right?
That is called a waveform (a representation of a soundwave). What you want to do is make a recording of the hiss, put it on a separate, parallel track, _invert it_, and then move it around on the time-line until you hear the hiss start to disappear.
It's important to invert the phase of the track, to create the cancelling effect that you need. If you just line-up the two tracks with the waveforms in the same directional pattern (your original track and the new hiss track), the hiss will actually get louder.
Now, as to your original hiss problem, you need to make sure that your input gain is louder than the "noise floor" (the sound that the equipment itself generates, and any environmental sounds that you don't want overpowering your vocal track), but without distorting. If your volume (or any volumes on various pieces of gear in the recording chain) is/are not properly set-up, you will either have distortion or very little signal that will be overwhelmed by noise.
The SM58 is a fine dynamic cardioid, which should work fine for your purposes, just make sure you're getting plenty of signal (but not too much!). Monitoring with your headphones will be very important. You also want to be close (but not _too_ close) to the mike when recording. If you are too close, you will hear the "proximity effect," which is an increase in bass response with that type of microphone the closer you get to it. A good general rule for average level voice recording would be to have your mouth about "three fingers away" from the mike. (Hold up three fingers and make a Cubscout sign; try to be about that close).
GJ
When you look at your soundtrack, it is a bunch of squiggly shapes on a time-line, right?
That is called a waveform (a representation of a soundwave). What you want to do is make a recording of the hiss, put it on a separate, parallel track, _invert it_, and then move it around on the time-line until you hear the hiss start to disappear.
It's important to invert the phase of the track, to create the cancelling effect that you need. If you just line-up the two tracks with the waveforms in the same directional pattern (your original track and the new hiss track), the hiss will actually get louder.
Now, as to your original hiss problem, you need to make sure that your input gain is louder than the "noise floor" (the sound that the equipment itself generates, and any environmental sounds that you don't want overpowering your vocal track), but without distorting. If your volume (or any volumes on various pieces of gear in the recording chain) is/are not properly set-up, you will either have distortion or very little signal that will be overwhelmed by noise.
The SM58 is a fine dynamic cardioid, which should work fine for your purposes, just make sure you're getting plenty of signal (but not too much!). Monitoring with your headphones will be very important. You also want to be close (but not _too_ close) to the mike when recording. If you are too close, you will hear the "proximity effect," which is an increase in bass response with that type of microphone the closer you get to it. A good general rule for average level voice recording would be to have your mouth about "three fingers away" from the mike. (Hold up three fingers and make a Cubscout sign; try to be about that close).
GJ
Greg Smith
Veteran
I'll go out on a limb here and say that I do not care for omni mics for handheld interviews at all. The need to "swallow the mic" to get good closeup sound, and the total inability to reject background noise, make them suitable for only the quietest locations or the most rough'n'tumble ENG situations where you really don't care much about the quality of the recording. For years, I used a Sennheiser ME80 short shotgun (sort of a predecessor to the ME66, but regarded as better sounding by many) as my "go to" handheld interview mic. Sure, you had to know how to point it at the speaker, but the isolation and quality were worth it, and with an experienced interviewer, it was really no problem. More recently, I've switched over to a Sennheiser MD46 cardioid for most of this work.
I used to carry a case with four SM58s, desk stands and a Shure M267 mixer when I was shooting public affairs stuff for our local cable access channels. We did a lot of small panel discussions and I would set up the mics around a table for the participants. I could handle up to eight people if they could share a mic in pairs, which usually worked out OK. The '58s were great for this purpose -- directional but not too directional, minimal handling noise, and with a very pleasing quality for voice recording. If there was one left over we could pass it around in the audience for questions. Today, I use Shure SM94s (condensers, so they are physically smaller, have a little tighter high end and more output, but are not as resistant to handling noise) for this purpose, but the SM58 is a great and classic microphone, and I think would work well for interviews in a pinch as long as you can get reasonably close to the subject.
Unfortunately, my box of '58s and mixer drowned in a flood in my basement about 20 years ago. Don't trust a "watertight" case to hold up underwater for several days ... I still miss that rig.
- Greg
I used to carry a case with four SM58s, desk stands and a Shure M267 mixer when I was shooting public affairs stuff for our local cable access channels. We did a lot of small panel discussions and I would set up the mics around a table for the participants. I could handle up to eight people if they could share a mic in pairs, which usually worked out OK. The '58s were great for this purpose -- directional but not too directional, minimal handling noise, and with a very pleasing quality for voice recording. If there was one left over we could pass it around in the audience for questions. Today, I use Shure SM94s (condensers, so they are physically smaller, have a little tighter high end and more output, but are not as resistant to handling noise) for this purpose, but the SM58 is a great and classic microphone, and I think would work well for interviews in a pinch as long as you can get reasonably close to the subject.
Unfortunately, my box of '58s and mixer drowned in a flood in my basement about 20 years ago. Don't trust a "watertight" case to hold up underwater for several days ... I still miss that rig.
- Greg
Wow Greg, thanks for the help. Do you recommend the MD46 then? Or, is the ME66 better? I paid about $100 for the M58. You had a bunch of them drown? Jesus what a total bummer!!!
My person (holding mic) is very loud and terrible about holding mic close to people he is talking to. I want to eventually boom but and so green it is going to take me time. We have used lavs but the one I think I want is really expensive, the Sanken I think it is, COS11 is that right?
Most of what I'm doing is outside and we have to move from one hole to another really quickly (as in golf hole).
The wireless is nice but expensive. I'd buy that of I could get a good deal, but can lav three people, and have all kinds of situations where people join in on the 'fun'...
You've been super and mahalos for helping me.
Best, John
My person (holding mic) is very loud and terrible about holding mic close to people he is talking to. I want to eventually boom but and so green it is going to take me time. We have used lavs but the one I think I want is really expensive, the Sanken I think it is, COS11 is that right?
Most of what I'm doing is outside and we have to move from one hole to another really quickly (as in golf hole).
The wireless is nice but expensive. I'd buy that of I could get a good deal, but can lav three people, and have all kinds of situations where people join in on the 'fun'...
You've been super and mahalos for helping me.
Best, John
Hey Gregg! Thanks for explaining it to me more clearly. I was thinking about what you had said as I was riding my bike and it was sort of sinking in. I will try and see if I can actually upload examples of before and after. Maybe you can see them and tell me if it looks good? Can I lose similar sounds or a frequency (is that the right term) if I do this, e.g., will part of a person's voice where the same pitch as hiss happens, will that get offset by the inverted waveform?
Thanks again for all your help. I had heard of something like this in a Lynda.com tutorial but it wasn't something I was able to do very well, or even 'get'
John
Thanks again for all your help. I had heard of something like this in a Lynda.com tutorial but it wasn't something I was able to do very well, or even 'get'
John
Gregg Juke
Well-known member
You'll mostly get rid of the hiss. You could try EQing it out first, or EQing after the phase trick, but you should be able to get a more intelligible track. The best way to do it, though, is to start with a recording that doesn't have those post-production issues to deal with in the first place, so keep working on that signal-to-noise ratio thing!
GJ
GJ
Greg Smith
Veteran
I do like the MD46 a lot. It's not way different from your SM58 sound wise, and is a similar dynamic cardioid in the general sense. But it's physically long and thin, better for hand-holding than the ice-cream-cone shaped SM58, and a bit more directional and sensitive, so you don't have to turn the gain up quite as far and can work it at just a slightly greater distance from the speaker. I've also often joked that it would be useful as a weapon in a pinch, because it's quite heavy and sturdy enough to drive nails with.
If I were buying today, I'd probably choose a Rode NTG-2 over the ME-66. But since you say your interviewer isn't great at pointing the mic, I don't think this would probably be the best handheld solution for you.
- Greg
If I were buying today, I'd probably choose a Rode NTG-2 over the ME-66. But since you say your interviewer isn't great at pointing the mic, I don't think this would probably be the best handheld solution for you.
- Greg