Shoulder Mount or what!

M

marjamar

Well-known member
I tried to take some fast action video of our flying wings the other day. Some of these exceed 100 MPH and are only 32" wide and smaller. Very hard to keep in frame even full wide. I really need to figure out what will help me keep this camera pointed at these little fast moving objects.

I'm thinking maybe some shoulder mount rig modified with an external sighting device of some type so I have full view insetead of through the limited viewfinder. My son uses a number of different gun sites on numerous hand guns and rifles - We're thinking something like a holographic cross-hairs type of site designed into a counter-wighted shoulder mount rig somehow.

Anyone who has ever have to really move the camera fast and keep small objects in frame maybe has already figured something out and would like to share :).

Thanks.

-Rodger
 
Re: Shoulder Mount or what!

well, i fly an extra 300 which has a little zip if ya know what i mean, but ive always just used handheld for any type of follow shots what you may find useful if this is for webstore video , or just test purposes would be to shoot a bit wider, and then just crop down to the aircraft for the output video(since you probably dont want the full res one anyway.) also what has worked nice is to start out wide, and start to follow the craft in the vf, then slowly zoom in once your on track with it. now i now my extra is pretty hard to track if you want to dance it around up there, and those wings get pretty outrageously wild and jiggy as well. you really just have to stay wider , and can narrow in when its in more level flight. i found that extensively taking with the rc pilot is important to know what they plan on doing, and being ready for it. other than that, got no specila gadget for it yet.. if you get somhthing goign. let me know :)
 
Re: Shoulder Mount or what!

I've shot all of these wings multiple times, except the latest and fastest one using an old Sony, but one of the reasons I've bought this new DVX100A is because I want to produce to DVD's as well as streaming videos.  So even though it may work for web use, I will still need full rez for DVD and really need to see better quality camera work then I can currently do free hand.

I've shot quite a bit of different airplanes at air shows, but there is nothing harder to shoot then small flying wings IMHO.  Personally, I don't think the pilot knows alot of the time where his wing is going next ;D.  

I will be doing something to aid me with this, just not sure enough to start just yet, so looking for info and ideas.

-Rodger
 
Re: Shoulder Mount or what!

yeah those wings are really hard to tell which way is up most of the time seeing as its a symetrical wing most of the time, and man theyre fast.. at least the planes have a tail (stabilizer) so you can tell all the time which way is up!!
 
Re: Shoulder Mount or what!

Tired of looking so I ordered a DVRig Pro and Zoe zoom control from EVS. Still need to figure the best (easiest) method to control focus.

-Rodger
 
Re: Shoulder Mount or what!

Hi Rodger, let me know how those end up working out for you. Also, have you ever tried turning off OIS on the DVX? I noticed that gives me an edge because it limits the amount of delay when panning the camera as the system struggles to stabilize the image.
 
Re: Shoulder Mount or what!

Rush & Unclemort,

This is in-fact a big part of why I'm buying the more expensive DVRig Pro.  I'm hoping the amount of steadiness will be there so I can turn OIS off.  I tried to shoot with it off on my first video/last shoot (only 1 so far), and I was way to jittery -- Actually COLD and standing in 2+ feet of show on rocks on a slope!  The other reason is I have to move so quickly to follow my target, I need help to keep it in-frame.  I'm working on an idea for that, but it will required again a steady rest to use properly.

Biggest problem after I get this stuff setup is going to be focus issues.  If I'm forced to shoot 60I, I'll just stay in auto, but if I can shoot 24pa, I'll need to have manual, fast focus control.  If I can't find an answer for this anywhere, I'll have to design and build something.  As we design and build R/C flying wings, I feel pretty sure this can be an option if I have to take it up.

So, I set here waiting patiently for FEDEX... Yeah RIGHT!

-Rodger
 
Re: Shoulder Mount or what!

Rodger, Sounds like you need one of those circular anti-aircraft gun rigs to track 'em right!!!! How would focus issues be affected if you set correct ND position to attain F-stops of 14-16, mf @ 91, stay wide and zoom safely, experiment with shutter speeds for different looks????? and obviously crop in post! Whatcha think?
 
IRe: Shoulder Mount or what!

IRe: Shoulder Mount or what!

[quote author=Unclemort link=board=Links;num=1077130213;start=0#8 date=02/25/04 at 09:18:29]Rodger, Sounds like you need one of those circular anti-aircraft gun rigs to track 'em right!!!!  How would focus issues be affected if you set correct ND position to attain F-stops of 14-16, mf @ 91, stay wide and zoom safely, experiment with shutter speeds for different looks?????   and obviously crop in post!   Whatcha think?[/quote]

I can hear the chuckling already, but your not to far off ;)!

Anyone who has had to (try to!) keep in-frame on a 24" object that has no compunction about making greater then right-angle corners at better then 100 MPH, you know what I'm talking about. For those who haven't, you need to give it a try -- It will humble you, guaranteed!

Basically, I need a solid platform I can move as fast as my eye can follow, without any shaking, and very minimal motion restrictions. I need to see not just what the lens sees, but all around the lens too. I need to be able to zoom in and out fast (or sometimes slow) and keep on this moving target. I need to focus fast (faster then 24p or 30p auto) and I really want to stay away from 60I if at all possible.

There is an answer, but its more then I can afford. Some may have seen the newer helmet cam setups being use now. They are totally awesome. Fully functional laser sighting and HUD eyepieces on a tracking cam. I will be looking at these very closely after I do some preliminary testing on my own.

Sidebar -Whenever I get ideas for something I need to design, I try to start with minimal outside influence to begin with. I find my creativeness is somewhat hindered if I already "know too much" about some of the other avenues already explored. I like to know just enough to keep "dead ends" to a minimal, but not much more.

Anyway, here's a pic of one of the pieces to the puzzle I'm adopting into the mix.

-Rodger

digital_site.jpg
 
Re: Shoulder Mount or what!

Hey Rodger, I also found this Nikon.  It's cool because it has a large 30mm lens and no magnification for the best eye relief.  I'll keep looking for more ideas.  These guys sell it for $249.

http://www.binoculars.com/detail.asp?PID=14987

"Nikon's Dot Sights were built after carefully analyzing the needs of hunters, shooters and competitors. The result is three new models that provide optical excellence, electronic reliablity, and unmatched durability. The monarch Dot Sight, Mararch Dot Sight VSD (variable sized Dot) and Team Realtree Dot Sight VSD are fully waterproof, fogproof and shockproof. Objective and ocular lenses are 30mm diameter, and are fully multicoated for incredible sharpness, brightness and color rendition. Reticle brightness is controlled by an 11-position rheostat and both are powered by a single, easily available lithium battery. (included). Nikon's Dot Sights have zero magnification, providing unlimited eye relief and a huge 47.2' field of view at 100 yards, perfect for the close up, fast shots that often occur. They have 100 MOA of internal adjustment, both in windage and elevation, making them easy to zero. The standard Monarch Dot Sight is available in silver and black external finishes, and has a 6MOA dot. The Monarch Dot Sight VSD is available in silver and black and has 1,4,6 and 10 MOA dots, controlled by a simple knob on the turret. Nikon's Team RealTree Dot Sight VSD also has 1,4,6, and 10 MOA dots and is finished in Realtree Hardwoods Green HD, the ultimate camouflage for the ultimate dot sight!"
 
Re: Shoulder Mount or what!

Thanks Rush. I looked at most of these for the past few days. I had already settled on and ordered the model I posted -- Should be here tomorrow. Most of the ones I looked at would work for my purpose I believe, but I wanted the largest lens I could find and so far this one is the biggest I found at 32mm.

If you looking for something people (including me) want, I'd suggest you look for a remote follow focus system that won't break the bank. My son believes he/we could design and build one, but putting as many hours as he does now into his SpeedWings, I would rather not bother him with it unless it is absolutely necessary.

-Rodger
 
Re: Shoulder Mount or what!

Got the DVRig Pro in yesterday about 4:40 or so. Very much looking forward to the prospect of using this advance, spring loaded shoulder mount. I had envisioned (by looking at DVTEC's website photos and description) something akin to a Steadicam system on a shoulder mount rig.

Well, after opening and unwrapping everything, I was a bit disillusioned. First, I couldn't find the custom bag that was shown of the photo page at DVTEC's website. Turns out this was an option, which may have been nice to indicate as such on the DVRig Pro's Product page. Someone took the time to put the photo up there, could have take another minute to say this was an option along with the pic. Anyway, back to the story...

Looking for all the neat spring loaded braces, arms, brackets and stuff, all I could find was a little spring loaded center support -- MAJOR BUMMER! Man I wanted some of those fancy springs you get with the Steadicam >:(.

Had to make a call to Rush and see why I didn't get my stuff I wanted :'(. I don't know Rush except for the few things I've bought from him and a few post here, but let me tell you something about him. After maybe 2 minutes of telling him I was not feeling really good (see above) and that I kinda feel let down, also that this rig was made for small people, not for me and my son -- we're both 6'4"" or so, Rush said normally they have to charge a 15% restocking fee on opened boxes because they won't re-tape and sell them for new, has to be sold as used. BUT-- Since I am feeling I got something different then I thought I bought and because it doesn't seem to fit, I can send it back and he would not charge the restocking fee.

I don't know about you guys, but this is really something to me. Especially since I have alot of stuff to buy yet, to know I can order on-line and get a full refund if it just isn't what I think it was suppose to be. Can't say this will always be the case, but it was this time. Rush, I really appreciate that offer but first, here's the rest of the story...

I decided I needed to put this thing together and give it a try since it was all unwrapped anyway. Only took about 10 minutes or so. Put the camera on and ran around with it flopping around on my shoulder and generally (almost begrudgingly) did some poor shooting. Looked at the footage, and said to myself this is going back tomorrow.

Well, its tomorrow now. Got up this morning and said to myself, "Try it again and this time put a bit of effort in setting it up properly". So I did. I adjusted basically every piece on this rig to fit my 260 lb. frame. I had to move the handles out and angle them about 15 degrees out as well. Adjusted the camera to fit my fat head (literally figuratively). Moved the support belt up under my chest (well almost) so when I looked up the brace wouldn't pull out of the pocket and fall on the floor. Adjusted the sliding camera carriage way over to the left and the sliding spring adjustment nut way left. Then I put it all on and had my son help and we did fine adjustments to everything all over again until I could take my hands off and walk around and the camera did not move.

WOW! What a difference! This thing really feels like part of my body now. It is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO different then when I first put it together and did that lousy test last night.

Got my son to go outside to do a quick test flight using my 70+ MPH (at level flight) 24" Mini SpeedWing 250 while I did some test shots. I still have a laser sight coming in that I'll be mounting on this rig, but even without the extra accuracy that will provide, I was able to hold full zoom, in-frame shots at least 95% of the time. This may not mean alot to everyone, but this is really remarkable as the best I could ever do with any camera before was to stay at about half this amount of zoom and invariably I would still out of frame more like 15~20% of the time.

Long post, but I really felt I had thought a dis-service to DVTEC -- Even though I only talked minimally to Rush about it, in my own mind I was thinking bad things. That and the fact that I also put Rush on the spot and as it turns out, unnecessarily -- I really felt I had to fess up here. Also, I wanted to let others know what this rig is capable of, IF YOU GIVE IT A CHANCE!

Now I just have to engineer and mounting system for my laser sight coming in today and "I be making movies" ;D.

PS - I know this is a long read, but I also need to get a really good long range shotgun mike. I would like to isolate my big mouth (I tend to talk while I shoot - really bad habit) and try to get the sound right in on my shots. So, anyone have some suggestions, I'm listening.

-Rodger
 
Re: Shoulder Mount or what!

Dont worry Rodger. I kinda felt the same, in fact DVTec used to advertise that it was a mini-stedicam on there site till I had a little talk with them and they changed it. It is not a stedicam, the spring thing is just for comfort. I also thought the bag came with it, but it is an option.

However, that said, as a Shoulder Support, it is the best by far than anything I have used. Its nice being able to let go of the thing and have it just hang there well you use your hands to do something else.
 
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