Should I shoot 24p?

T

Trex

New member
Ah, yes...as if this hasn't been discussed before.
In fact the same question I posted in the cinematography section.
Well here it is again:

I will be editing with Premiere 6.0....

That being the case, how much of a pain ... or ... is it even possible to shoot in 24p? What problems will that give me? I read that there is something I could download which would change the file type to quicktime to be edited in Premiere 6.0...is that my only option and if so, will that affect the output quality?

You all know what I'm getting at.

Any and all help would be great.

Thanks

Trex
 
The DVX adds pull down to the 24p video and lays it down on tape as 60i. Premiere 6 will see it as 60i and you should not have any problems.
 
Sumfun - Then what are the advantages of using, say, Premiere Pro 1.5 which has separate project files for Panasonic 24p?
 
Don't use PP1.5 for 24p if you're using 30fps timeline. It removes the pulldown and adds its own pull down which makes the video jerky. There is no way to overide this functions, and this is one of the big complaints about PP1.5. So far we haven't heard a peep from Adobe. There are some work-arounds, but why should anyone have to do that?

There are some good features in PP1.5, such as the project manager, but 24p isn't one of them. I ended up switching to shooting 30p, which actually looks smoother than 24p. But then again, I'm shooting for TV, not film.
 
24p advanced works fine in premiere pro 1.5, 24p normal works in 1.5 if you run the matrox x.10 or x.100 hardware.
 
Okay!
So now here's a good question. Since it's possible to edit 24p in Premiere 6.0, should I even bother shooting in 24p?
This will never be blown up or projected, it is solely for the purpose shooting a few scenes to "pad" an actor's reel which will be viewed by agents, etc. I just want it to mix in nicely with other stuff I have that was shot on film and HD...for the reel.
Any thoughts on how much shooting on 24p will (or will not) enhance the look of the piece?

Thanks!
 
The 24p aesthetic will remain whether you edit in 24p or in 60i. It’s entirely a stylistic choice, not a technical one.
 
Trex - I agree with Jubal28 that shooting 24p is a matter of aesthetics. Use 24p if you want a film look. Personally, I like 24pA better because if looks a little smoother and you can recover all the frames.

Bryan - I've never used 24fps timeline, but from what I've heard, 24pA works fine. 24p seems to cause some burnouts in the highlights. Using the legal colors filter seems to help this problem.
 
24pN will look less stuttery if you edit on a 60i timeline. (Though 24pA will probably look fine, you’ll notice more of a motion stutter editing in 60i.)

“Recovering frames” is only a concern if you’re editing in 24p, and both 24pN and 24pA will work fine for that – you’ll be working in full 24 frames. (Unless PP1.5 can’t handle 3:2 pulldown, and I can’t imagine that’s true.)

There's NO difference in colors or highlights between 24pN and 24pA. The only difference between the two is how they're laid to tape, and that's only in arranging of the frames. (Again, unless PP1.5 does something screwy, which I can't imagine is true -- because that difference won't be there on the tape.)
 
In versions before PPro 1.5 (i.e., PPro 1.0(7) or Premiere 6) shoot 24p Normal (f5). This will give the correct "film on TV" pulldown.

If you are working in PPro 1.5 in a 24p timeline, shoot 24p Advanced (F6). (PPro 1.5 has some 24p bugs and they are more prevalant with 24p Normal.)

If you are working in PPro 1.5 in a 60i timeline, it's best to avoid 24p. All of your footage will have to be rendered.
 
Aha. So PP1.5 DOES have problems with 3:2 pulldown.

I still can’t imagine it would produce color problems or blown highlights, though. That sounds more like the difference between the default settings of scene files F5 and F6 on the DVX100A, and treating them interchangeably when they’re not.
 
i'm going just a little crazy with this. for the most part, i'm concerned with getting 24pn to a ppro 1.5, 60i timeline (tv and dvd stuff)

of course, this is not as straight forward as it may seem.....strobing & a weird grid effect (maybe what's been discribed as artifacting in the past) on every fourth frame. i seem to be able to get rid of the strobing using limits and levels, but the artifacting is a problem still.

and as has been discused before, 24pn on an earlier version of premiere pro (i have ppro 1) in a 60i timelime is just fine....no strobing or artifacts. but one of my favorite tools (magic bullet) will only work in ppro 1.5....plus some of the 1.5 features are nice as well.

any (not so extreme) methods of getting 24pn into a 60i ppro 1.5 timeline? i'm in the process of trying my own and others work arounds now, but does anyone else have some suggestions that i can add to the file i forced to make for this time consuming issue? is it a matter of tricking 1.5 into not removing the pulldown?

to bad, i hope adobe gets on top of this one in version 2!

it seems to me that the artifacting and the strobing are related and that the artifacting or what i thought was a grid is actually scan lines in the shadow areas. they seem to be timed with the strobing (you can see the srobing on a waveform monitor). is this the case for everyone, or are there other issues as well?
 
one of the work arounds i read about for getting 24pn into a ppro 1.5 60i timeline was to add a few seconds of 60i footage at the beginning of your tape then shoot the rest of the tape in 24pn.......capture ENTIRE tape to ppro 1.5 60i timelime and this would trick ppro 1.5 into thinking the whole tape is 60i.

after experimenting with this work around i found that it seems to work! try it. i put in a new tape, shot about one minute on F1 mode, turned off my camera and swithed to F5 and shot another couple minutes in 24pn. i captured the ENTIRE footage into 29.79 timeline. the footage looked like it should! i checked the waveform monitor for stobing....none! i then captured just the 24pn footage from the tape and checked for strobing......it showed up again!

i'm going to experiment some more but this is a good start and it's very simple. thanks to the guy or guy's out there that suggested the fix!
 
PP1.5 looks at the first frame of a video clip to determine if it's 24p or 60i. So if you're shooting new tape, just start capturing the whole tape at the color bar (which is always 60i), and PP1.5 will think you have 60i video. It will remain "60i" even if you only use small segments of the video in your timeline.

If you've already captured or edited a program in 24p, then just add at least 1 frame of 60i to the beginning of your program and export it as a movie. Then re-import it back in to PP1.5. It will think that the video is 60i. You can remove the 60i footage from the front and you have your original video. But without the original timecodes, though.
 
sumfun,

thanks for the original tip.........was very helpful.

i have tried putting some 60i at the start of previously captured 24p......but haven't had any success using that method. i still get stobing that i can see and see on the waveform. i'll try it again though.
 
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