Should I sack it all in and get a 'real' job?

I think if you want to be a filmmaker (direct narrative or docs, or music videos?) as opposed to a video producer or event videographer, you might be able to get more accomplished in the cinematic arts if you had a steady job, and then worked on weekends or nights/days off on your movies.

As you probably know, doing a full-time video production business takes a lot of time and energy to keep it going. I'm in that same boat, and have pretty much lost all momentum in pursuing my real dream, with is making films and writing scripts. I do wedding videos now, and some other events. Just keeping up with that and trying to compete in that market, I haven't done any corporate/commercial video work for a couple years now. It is brutal, and as others have said, the potential money you can make keeps plummeting as everybody and his brother grabs a DSLR and tries to make extra cash on the weekends doing events and wedding video.

If you really want to make films, it can be hard or nearly impossible to do that on the side while you run a small business. Running a business means you almost never clock out at the end of the day as you would with a regular 9-5 job. You take the burden home with you. It keeps you up at night. Personally, I'm kinda miserable at this point in my life due to this.

One of the best periods of my life was about a decade ago when I was 22-23 and making my first real attempt at shooting a film. At that time I worked at a coffee shop and saved as much as I could towards my film. It was a silly action/sci-fi feature shot on a crappy mini DV camera (this being right before the legendary DVX100 was unleashed). I was of course stupid and didn't get permission for locations. We had realistic looking cap guns, painted squirt guns, and pellet guns for some props. As you can guess, we had the cops called on us. I thought I was screwed. My record seemed that it was gonna be tarnished with the blurb arrested for making a movie. In the end, I never got all the scenes shot, and the actors flaked out a bit near the last days shooting. The final movie I was able to put together sucked horribly, but it was a great learning experience that I should have built on and tried to up my game and improve my technical filmmaking skills.

Instead I listened to all the practical advice from those around me, friends and family who said, "you'll make a good living shooting weddings and corporate vids, Hollywood is a pipe dream" etc. Of course, this was negatively reinforced by low confidence since high school, when I first admitted to parents and friends that I wanted to get into narrative filmmaking as a career (middle school years was when I was obsessed with special effects), and was shot down like a skinny bird caught in a hail of anti-aircraft flak. The thing is, once the 2008 economic meltdown hit, a lot of the "practical" advice that I received in school and during my early 20's was completely useless. I was pissed, and still am a bit to be honest. I feel like I wasted a good deal of my life, and now in my early 30's, I might be too old to continue pursuing screenwriting (from what I hear, the studio execs don't like you starting out past 35 at the latest). Same with directing. If you want to get your foot in the door, you have got to make it early on. The reality is that there is much less positive reception and interest towards middle-aged or older voices in the arts and entertainments industries nowadays.

So grab your dream by the reins and go for it. Sure you need some sort of job while you work towards a big break or just getting your foot in the door. That is how it is for everybody. I just think it is a waste of youth to feel you have to have everything figured out and be married with children right away, or creating a super successful independent business a year or two after finishing school. You're still young. 23. You have time to hone your talents and craft, which potentially will lead you to a career you actually want, not one out of necessity like 99% of the population. If you already enjoy doing this (film/video), then at the very least you'll have the fun and fulfillment of pursuing it, even if you don't make it to the top of the industry pyramid of wealth and power.

Damn... all this talk has me really fired up. I think blathering on about all this has helped me in motivating my own pitiful self. So if I can find a glimmer of hope at my age, you certainly have not run out of options.
 
Judging by the lack of response from the OP I'm guessing he quit...

haha nope. I'm amazed by the huge response to my question and I'm still taking time to look through all the responses.

Working at home is a huge problem but I've found some new office space with a minimum of 5 months before I can cancel it. So I'm moving in there and I'm going to give it another good 5 months before I take a look at everything again.

I'm also trying to push ahead with my new short film which I'm putting £300 into (props/food/equipment/petrol). It's quite a long piece (around 20+ minutes) and I feel that it is really important for me to complete this. If it turns out no good then I need to really ask myself what on earth I'm doing with the whole filmmaking thing!
 
You don't sound nearly crazy enough to become a filmmaker. Your circumstances are almost too-good-to-be-true as a starting point to turn into a writer/director. You're young with hardly any living expenses, and you have saved up money, film equipment, etc.

You lack bravery and passion, and you have too much common sense.
 
The funny thing is, I cant tell if thats sarcasm or not.

But seriously, OP, one thing they always say is that your first attempts WILL suck (although I stand by the opinion that my first short was awesome), and not to be discouraged. Might I say that trying to take on a 20 minute film first time out might be not the best idea, though? Chances are at that length your film has many characters and multiple locations. I've seen this before when there's little to no money involved: things start falling apart quickly. Locations fall through, someone gets sick/has to work/robs a bank/spontaneously pops out a baby they didn't know they were carrying, and before you know it you're delayed three months. I would advise starting with something shorter and very simple. . .two or three people in a single room or at least one location (house, office, etc.). Maybe you've thought through all that and have workarounds for these issues, or they're non-issues to begin with for you. If so, go for it!

Oh, and I've been advised fests often don't like things much longer than 10 minutes. If you're cool with that and have some other target for distribution or don't really care and just want the fun/learning experience, cool beans.
 
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I'm being sincere.

I am 23 and a half.
I work as a freelance 'video maker'. (Director/DP/Editor)
I still live with my parents.
I have only £5000 in savings and income is quite slow.
I have around £5k in equipment that would probably equate to around £3.5k if sold.
My rephrasing:

-I have 3/4 of my life still left to live.
-I know the basics of directing, cinematography, and editing, and have made money from my skills.
-My parents still allow me to live in their home, so my living expenses are very low.
-I have managed to save up £5000, far more in savings than most my age have. Most filmmakers my age are in debt.
-I have managed to acquire £5000 worth of film equipment, far more than most filmmakers my age.




If the OP thinks these circumstances are worth giving up over, he deserves to. Absolutely no courage.
 
am I the only one that think if you're asking this question, then you shouldn't even try? Way down the road when the hard times hits, you're just going to ask yourself this question again and you're probably gonna find another job. If you just want to be a videographer then just get another job and do it on the weekend. You'll be able to acquire the gear much faster and because you don't rely on videography for rent, you can be even more competitive. That's what happen to the wedding industry. But if you want to do Film then it's all in or bust.

Here's a good read http://nofilmschool.com/2013/03/cha...school+(NoFilmSchool)&utm_content=Yahoo!+Mail
 
If the OP thinks these circumstances are worth giving up over, he deserves to. Absolutely no courage.

You are a very negative person. My circumstances are far from too good to be true. I am essentially living off my parents which I do not think is a good thing. I'll be 24 soon and if I keep doing what I'm doing I'll need to keep living off my parents for a while longer. I do not earn enough money to stand on my own two feet and this is a huge burden for me. You need to make your own way in the world and not leech of the people around you forever.

Saying I have no courage is ridiculous. I spent everything I had on equipment, found work, got a business loan, bought better equipment, moved into office space, paid off business loan, moved into nicer office space, got more clients etc etc. I acquired my equipment with loans and credit cards and worked hard to pay it all back. If I didn't I would be in debt but I'm not. I've done well but there needs to be a cut-off point somewhere. A point where if I am still no further ahead financially then I must be realistic and change my situation for the better. I'm not wanting to just quit right now but lets say in 1 year or 2 years time that I'm in a similar situation to I am now. Something has to change.

Video production work does not make me a filmmaker. My real passion lies in storytelling and characters. The big thing I ask myself is would I be better off getting a steady income, becoming more independent and working on narrative films as much as I can in my free time. As I said in my original post, I would not 'give up' filmmaking but I would no longer do 'video production' as my main form of income.

You say I am not 'crazy enough' to be a filmmaker. This is one of the most cringe worthy statements I've ever read here, something someone would say if they want people to think that about themselves. "I'm a crazy filmmaker, I'm really cool and live in my car, can I lend some money for gas?". I'm careful with my money and I do not squander it easily. Also remember we are not talking about my personal narrative filmmaking, we are talking about my video production work. The two are completely separate and the former is something I will never give up. My passion doesn't exactly lie in corporate video and promos for the web but I do enjoy it and it lets me practice my practical skills for when I work on my narrative projects.

'Too much common sense'. What?

Anyway I'm moving into my new office space next week so the business rolls on! I'll check back in a year! Thanks for all your replies and the reason I absolutely love this forum!

Josh Bass said:
Might I say that trying to take on a 20 minute film first time out might be not the best idea, though? Chances are at that length your film has many characters and multiple locations....


I realised this very early on when I started making films (my first ever short was never finished because of what you describe). I've made shorts at around 10-15 minutes before so this is the next step up. The script also only has 2 characters and simple locations. A lot happens in the film but everything is budgeted and planned out, everyone involved has taken days off from work in advance so hopefully no surprises! I also understand that it is an awkward length for festival stuff but I wrote the script a long time ago and it's just the length of the story. If I can get people to watch it and enjoy it then I'm happy and it's a step forward in the quality of my work.

Nektonic thank you especially for your reply. My best filmmaking memory was not doing my day to day video production. It was attending the screening of my 24hr film, having the entire room laughing at the comedy film I wrote, winning first place and getting a little golden VHS tape trophy. Making that theatre of people laugh gave me such a buzz I cannot even begin to describe. I had never really had a film screened to proper live audience and to be honest I was worried it would totally flop but knowing I entertained people was just the best feeling and that's when I realised this is why I want to make films.
 
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But seriously, OP, one thing they always say is that your first attempts WILL suck (although I stand by the opinion that my first short was awesome), and not to be discouraged.

In my case, my first attempts really really sucked. At least I can laugh at those films now. So in a sense they did provide some entertainment value in the end (note: I did a better job than Birdemic at least).

Might I say that trying to take on a 20 minute film first time out might be not the best idea, though? Chances are at that length your film has many characters and multiple locations. I've seen this before when there's little to no money involved: things start falling apart quickly.

I don't think 20 minutes is too bad to aim for. At the very worst, one's early works end up as learning experiences worth more than the outcome of the movies themselves.

Trying to do a feature length flick on the first outing, yeah, that's gonna be extra painful... but again, great experience and hard knocks will likely come out of it.


"We work too hard. We try too hard. Don’t try. Don’t work. It’s there. It’s been looking right at us, aching to kick out of the closed womb. There’s been too much direction. It’s all free, we needn’t be told. Classes? Classes are for asses. Writing a poem is as easy as beating your meat or drinking a bottle of beer."

"Classes are for asses."

I love that. Especially in this day and age.

- you gotta have a RED or a Black Magic Cam
- your lens isn't top of the line
- you're not recording to ProRes HQ 4444 on an external recorder? What!!!! Unprofessional!!!!
- Holy Toledo! You color graded your no-budget Youtube short without going to a professional colorist!!!!
- hey man, I paused and zoomed in 400000% on your lead actor's left nostril in that last scene... dude, you got some weird aliasing going on there in the blacks by this barely visible nose hair... I told you not to shoot it with a Canon DSLR

All that constant gear lust always reminds me of how there are too many web-imposed rules these days for filmmaking and creative stuff in general. Man, it just distracts sometimes. These days, with all the affordable gear we have at our disposal, not just in price but in terms of tons of choices... we should be less worried about all the rules and what gear you're supposed to use. Unless it is your boss telling you to shoot with this or that and you're being paid to do so, use what you want and not what somebody tells you to use.

Nektonic thank you especially for your reply. My best filmmaking memory was not doing my day to day video production. It was attending the screening of my 24hr film, having the entire room laughing at the comedy film I wrote, winning first place and getting a little golden VHS tape trophy. Making that theatre of people laugh gave me such a buzz I cannot even begin to describe. I had never really had a film screened to proper live audience and to be honest I was worried it would totally flop but knowing I entertained people was just the best feeling and that's when I realised this is why I want to make films.

No problem.

It sounds like you know what you want to do, just getting there is the hard part, whether you do your own business or get a regular day job to earn some money to live and finance your film projects.
 
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OP, base on your response, I can tell that being financially stable is important to you. I would recommend that you find another job. Maybe one that can also give you time for filmmaking. I believe you'll be happier that way.
 
To sum it up: You don´t want to be someone who produces video for others. You want to be a filmmaker. Right?
Shooting videos for clients, using up your creativity to sell their "I-could-not-care-less-abou-it" product, will frustrate you to your bones sooner or later.
The video production business itself is as hard as any, but working in it as a freelancer gives you the wrong and poisonous impression of "being on your way to fulfill your dream", while using up all your energy, creativity and passion to "hold on" and "look out".
Because someone will see the corporate video you did for "Lawrence, Brooks and Partners" and will fund your 100K indie flick, right?
And if not, you will at least have practised again (and again and again), how to properly light and frame an interview, and boy, did Mr.Brooks look good this time, thanks to the 550D and the blurred out background. If I only had the BMCC for this, but dang, I preorderd to late.
Hmm, maybe next time I rent one of those dirt cheap RED One packages I´ve heard of floating around and see if I can make the interview look EVEN MORE like a movie...

I´m past that, have fallen in that trap (my 2c) long ago, somehow made my peace with it and can now live good off it.
But film - I will probably never do.
I have read so many filmmaker's biographies, most notorious Tarrantino working in a video store, Gondry doing artistic stop motion music vids aso, but I don´t know a single one who was running a small video production company in a midsized town, having some "decent equipment (including LED lights...)" who out of now where produced the "next big thing".

This leaves you with at least another ten years of being constantly broke, relying on your parents from time to time, fearing the future to come and slowly seeing your dreams die (or put more positively: Change.), because not only you are using up your dream, but also your clients are feasting from it, because doing that "this time we sadly only have a low budget" for a "kinda cool" client, will make you work too many hours for too less money, but unlike any other s*%tty underpaid job, won´t FEEL like a s*%tty underpaid job, thus being the capitalists dream finally come true.

So if you were my 23old me, I would tell me to STFU right now and rethink: Do you want to be a successful freelancer producing videos for others, or do you want to be a filmmaker?

All the best!
 
OP, base on your response, I can tell that being financially stable is important to you. I would recommend that you find another job. Maybe one that can also give you time for filmmaking. I believe you'll be happier that way.

This is sage advice.

I've uncharacteristically refrained from chiming in on this thread until now because I didn't want to sound bitter and negative, but I think that in 2013 someone telling their parents that they are going to become a filmmaker is equivalent to saying you are going to run away and join the circus in a previous generation.

On-the-other-hand, I have a cousin that wanted to get into the business and did so against my cautious advice, and he actually seems to be doing pretty well. . .so far. That's really the problem, this business can leave anyone (and almost everyone) high-and-dry with little warning, risk-taking is not always rewarded, individualism can have a short shelf-life.

The most unfortunate trend is that filmmaking is becoming a resume-category that media types are supposed to have filled on the second or third page. I see lots of corporate job descriptions for social-media communicators and down on the bottom of the long, long list of job skills they expect the candidate to be able to script, storyboard, light, shoot and edit professional level video for web distribution. Like its typing or something.
 
If I was really passionate about telling stories I would become a writer. Or at least read a lot of great stories to learn about good story telling and original characters. And live a crazy, unusual life too. A lot of the stories I see on TV and on the big screen are so devoid of originality. So damn predictable! They all seem to present us with yet another scenario where resorting to violence would not only make sense, but actually be good. Since when is real life like that? Damn all these executives running the shows. They've turned an art form into a circus.
 
...and slowly seeing your dreams die (or put more positively: Change.)

At 41 years old, I would love nothing more than to keep producing "corporate video and promos for the web". Anything to pay the bills.

OP, best of luck, it sounds like you have your act together. (no sarcasm) Def check back in when you can.

Great thread, lots of good advice here and there.
 
You are a very negative person. My circumstances are far from too good to be true. I am essentially living off my parents which I do not think is a good thing. I'll be 24 soon and if I keep doing what I'm doing I'll need to keep living off my parents for a while longer. I do not earn enough money to stand on my own two feet and this is a huge burden for me. You need to make your own way in the world and not leech of the people around you forever.

Saying I have no courage is ridiculous. I spent everything I had on equipment, found work, got a business loan, bought better equipment, moved into office space, paid off business loan, moved into nicer office space, got more clients etc etc. I acquired my equipment with loans and credit cards and worked hard to pay it all back. If I didn't I would be in debt but I'm not. I've done well but there needs to be a cut-off point somewhere. A point where if I am still no further ahead financially then I must be realistic and change my situation for the better. I'm not wanting to just quit right now but lets say in 1 year or 2 years time that I'm in a similar situation to I am now. Something has to change.

Video production work does not make me a filmmaker. My real passion lies in storytelling and characters. The big thing I ask myself is would I be better off getting a steady income, becoming more independent and working on narrative films as much as I can in my free time. As I said in my original post, I would not 'give up' filmmaking but I would no longer do 'video production' as my main form of income.

You say I am not 'crazy enough' to be a filmmaker. This is one of the most cringe worthy statements I've ever read here, something someone would say if they want people to think that about themselves. "I'm a crazy filmmaker, I'm really cool and live in my car, can I lend some money for gas?". I'm careful with my money and I do not squander it easily. Also remember we are not talking about my personal narrative filmmaking, we are talking about my video production work. The two are completely separate and the former is something I will never give up. My passion doesn't exactly lie in corporate video and promos for the web but I do enjoy it and it lets me practice my practical skills for when I work on my narrative projects.

'Too much common sense'. What?


I was trying to be motivational, and offending you was not my goal. I'm sorry my words were too harsh.

But I do believe you -currently- lack the courage necessary for a lifetime of filmmaking. You said, "If [my short film] turns out to be no good, then I really need to ask myself what on Earth I'm doing with the whole filmmaking thing!"

How can you give up so soon? Giving up after one bad film doesn't sound all that courageous to me. If your true passion is for filmmaking, you will pursue it over your own comfort... otherwise, by literal definition, you are more passionate about your comfort.

Not everybody should be risky and aim to become filmmakers. But, I'm telling you the hard truth. If you give up and pursue something else, it's because what you were lacking was courage. Few people will tell you this. You won't even tell yourself this--it'll come in the form of rationalizations and denials.

In this very thread you can see people much older than you saying that they were once at the same crossroad you're at. Some of them took the comfortable route and now regret it. You haven't made your decision yet, and so you're in a very fortunate place.


--------



-Why do you need an office? It sounds like you're renting an office instead of an apartment. I'd say rent a tiny little apartment first, then see if you can afford an office later. Move out of your parents' house into a tiny apartment, leave your editing bay at your parents' house, and commute there to do your editing work maybe? This will at least feel better psychologically, I think.

-You might make more money as a B-camera operator working for other production companies. There's a lower overhead and it sounds like you already have the skills.

-What sort of budget do you require for your living expenses? I bet I could survive for a year on the money you have without working a day, if I needed to. Live cheap! Lots of roommates, tiny rooms. Plant a garden, be frugal.



Best of luck, my friend. You're about my age, and I'm pretty much in your same position. I was being hard on you because I'm trying to tell myself the same advice. There is a lot of pessimism out there, but stay strong.
 
Yeah, I was going to sa that are different ways to be a freelancer...you can be on the more self-contained creative side (i.e. what it sounds like youre doing now), or be a crew person on other folks' productions, which in some ways is a lot less work. Yes, you still have to find the gigs in the first place, but youre not doing the concept development, writing scripts, etc., stuff that uses up your creative energy. O

As for getting a real job, i wont to throw one more thing in there...theres something to said for the job youre forced to do 5 days a week to live draining your will and ambition to create in your spare time. Some will say that simply means you dont want it bad enough. My opinion is that you cqnt just go on autopilot 8+ hours a day, 5 days a week until its "fun time" again. You have to deal with a boss, coworkers, responsibilties at work, etc. If you hate your job at the insurance company (for oinstance) you may not feel like writing that script at 8pm or 1am. If you like production work i would say try to stay in the field. You can meet crew people who also work on movies (networking) and this constant immersion in that environmento csn keep you juiced and excited about your ideas.

Second to that, i would ask if theres anything in the "real job" world youve ever had an interest in so you can at least find a gig you like.

This is all moot since be said wont be back here for a year.
 
You're 23, and essentially just starting out... but you have a leg up in that you have a couple years of education PLUS a couple years of gainful self-employment.

I'm 37, married, housed, with three kids, have been self-taught freelancing full-time for 5 years, and looking through my own retrospectoscope would say this: Get a full-time job that will train you in what you eventually want to do in self-employment. You've essentially no deep commitments to anyone or anything else and have the freedom to go wherever doing whatever for however much they're willing to pay. If you spend the next six years working for and under the mentorship of experienced professionals in your chosen field, how much more refined will your skills be than after six years of self-taught trial-and-error?

Forget full-time jobs that don't teach you something you need to learn to reach your goal. Pointless waste of time.

Naturally this is all easier said than done in this economy... I've been trying to find local full-time work in production for the past five years to no avail... you, of course, have much more freedom to move where the work is.
 
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