Should I sack it all in and get a 'real' job?

A

analog_addict

Well-known member
Hello everyone. A bit of background first:
  • I am 23 and a half.
  • I work as a freelance 'video maker'. (Director/DP/Editor)
  • I still live with my parents.
  • I have only £5000 in savings and income is quite slow.
  • I have around £5k in equipment that would probably equate to around £3.5k if sold.


I did film theory at University (with a few modules of practical) which I absolutely loved but I realised towards the end of my second year I really liked the practical side and spent all my student loan on an XL2 and some other things. I got my first paid job while in my third year and that's where it all started.

So I have been making money doing freelance video work since I graduated University. I really wanted to put everything into it so I never got a secondary job and I rented office space for nearly 2 years so I didn't have to work from home and had a nice place to meet clients. I invested moderately in equipment and I have enough gear to get by on most jobs (5dmk2/GH2/Mixer/LED panels/Mic etc).

I've been at it properly for about 2 years now and if I was to move out of my parents place I realistically would not have enough income to live on and my savings would soon dwindle. I am now at the stage where I think I may need to be realistic and get 'real' (sorry for lack of a better term!) full time job. My problem is that I wouldn't really know what I would want to do and I have only ever been self-employed. Even before doing videography I would make money on Ebay instead of getting a part-time job.

I'm starting to find the jobs I get boring and frustrating. I'm rarely happy with my work and realise that because I am self-taught it's going to be extremely hard to really excel where I want with only the internet as my teacher. I'm realise I am not totally useless though as I do get work and all my clients keep coming back. I have also won two competitions for 24hr and 48hr narrative films. I was also awarded a fellowship and a £4000 grant after pitching my business to a panel. It all sounds very good on paper but I'm not making enough money and I'm not producing amazing and innovative videos.

I still want and dream to be a filmmaker but I think I may have to quit my business I have spent the past 2+ years on which is quite sad. If I did this then I would still keep all my equipment and focus on my own films and putting some extra cash into them. Being a 'filmmaker' is a huge part of what defines me and I'm worried that if I get a full time job for a company I will slowly lose interest due to other commitments.

Since I have never been employed I am very anxious and have become very comfortable with my own work methods. Even though I have no employment history I think I could survive job interviews as I'm quite good in those situations and I have a alot of transferable skills from filmmaking such as team leadership, organisation, people skills etc.

I have thought about just getting a part-time job to help my income but it seems impossible to find something flexible enough where I could switch hours all the time for my film projects.

Sorry for writing a huge blog post but I really needed to get this all of my chest and I hope a few of you guys can relate. I don't want to be living at home in another years time getting ready to turn 25. I've had some truly fantastic and amazing times doing videography but I think I may need to reconsider.

Please help me DVXuser. You're my only hope.
 
Yes find a real job M-F and do part time video on the weekend until you have more clients, connections... got to pay the bills and learn to live on your own before pursuing your dream.
 
Great topic. One that I'm sure is on the mind of many young adults. I think it would be great for older people on the forum to give their perspective looking back on their lives. Are they happy with their choices or do they wish they did something differently?

Of course, those that are successful would probably say stay with it. But I think it might be more beneficial to hear from those that have not had success in this business and are doing something else. Are they satisfied with their lives? Do they regret having not chased their dreams?

You are working independant. What about working for a video/film/broadcast business? What about a corporate media center? Sure, its not filmmaking, but it is related. Is that out? Do you feel the need to be working on your own?

Nothing sucks worse than working a job you're not interested in. The corporate world stinks, no matter what the business. If you like being independent, the corporate world would be a difficult fit. A small business might be a better fit.
 
I mostly stopped doing video work and focused on my retail job after moving to this area, after finding that I didn't understand the local market and couldn't compete with the people who have way better equipment than me and can operate at the same price. Not to mention moving cost me my crew and connections. Since then I've started doing occasional (think once a month) video jobs while trying to grow the business or invest in something else. Maybe finish my avionics degree.

Unfortunately, I work in retail during an economic downturn and I live in the SF Bay Area. This means that I have no savings despite what I would have considered a really high income before coming here. My wife and I make easily twice what my family did back home, but somehow the numbers don't add up. As for the question of if I'm satisfied with my life, the answer would be a strong no. At this point it's turned into what a doctor would call depression if I asked. I often can't sleep at night. I no longer find joy in the things I used to, such as music and video games. All I do is work, usually at a place I can't stand to walk into anymore, all the while trying to stop the thoughts that keep reminding me of all of my past failures that led to this. And I'm two years older than you.

Unfortunately, I have to be realistic. With the proliferation of cheap and easy to use equipment, I am no longer totally relevant. With sales low businesses don't want to invest in promo material unless it's at the high end, and I can't afford to compete there. In order to push the business enough to be somewhat survivable on income I would have to dedicate myself 100% to improving, marketing, building connections and being aggressive to get clients. Had I done that five years ago instead of making the choices I did to be 'settled down' I might have a life that doesn't have me exaggerating and misleading people when they ask me, 'what do you do?'. But that didn't happen. Some new investment options might make up for that soon, but even if my current business options pan out right now I'll still have lost those years.

Or, if I'd chosen to pursue video, I could be homeless and starving right now while still stuck in the depressed little town I moved from. So the mistake I made wasn't taking the retail job in the first place, it was not being able to dedicate myself the way I should have to video work after and therefore putting off better options for a lot longer than I should have.

So here is my advice. Get a job. Any job. You'll learn a lot, especially if you haven't done real work before, which it sounds like you haven't. Shoot video on the weekend. And save your money. As much as possibly can, build a savings. Nothing will be more important once you decide to pursue something more worthwhile. While you're doing that, try to take a few business classes at your local college. Business classes are worth ten times as much as film classes. Keep shooting on the side and building contacts. Eventually you may get to the point where you feel you have enough savings and a strong enough business plan to really compete. That's when you put together a website and start calling potential clients. Every day needs to be dedicated to pushing for video work. If you aren't able to push with every ounce of strength for your business to succeed, you need to look for a job where someone else does the heavy lifting. I know a few people who work as PA's full time, so you'll have to look for something like that. Within filmmaking, you don't sound like you're doing anything that would stand out. A lot of people are capable of doing the same level of freelance production that you are, so why should a client hire you when the next guy does it for less? I don't want to sound like this is an attack on your abilities, but the idea that your talent is so out-of-this-world that you should be paid a comfortable living wage to create what you want is pretty arrogant when you really think about it. You have to understand why a client would want to hire you, or anyone, and how you help them and their business (or whatever it is you're shooting). It's always about the person with the check.

I also want to respond to the part about your skills from filmmaking being useful in the rest of the employment world. It's important for you to realize that most people these days seem to be filmmakers. Unless you have some serious accolades to your name and successfully funded campaigns under your belt you aren't anything special for owning a camera. You have no relevant education and people working in even the most basic jobs often have to deal with twice the workload you do in video work with half the resources. The other people being interviewed are just as good as you are if not better, and most of them have experience. My management skills have grown exponentially doing retail work, and I've been able to see a lot more of how people work. So don't underestimate the value of even the most basic tasks.

Sorry for the rambling post here, hopefully something in it is still useful. I'm way too tired to organize my thoughts today. The most important point is that to succeed at all, in any job, you have to truly be dedicated. The economy worldwide and changing technology demands that today. Study business and strategy and find where to strike when you're ready. Realistically the market for video work is shrinking and the competition is growing, so while you still can it would be a great idea to explore other areas of interest and find something that is more likely to pay off.
 
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My only advice is don't take anyone's advice.

There are as many answers to your dilemma as there are paths in life.
 
Cassius said:
With the proliferation of cheap and easy to use equipment, I am no longer totally relevant.
Click to expand...

This is exactly the problem. Everyone is a "filmmaker" now-a-days. It has become so easy and so accessible - and worse yet, everyone thinks they are good at it - and clients have no idea what is "good". How many times have we all been invited to look on YouTube at someone's "new footage" from their "just purchased" brand new camera? And it is just not good footage.

The request for "older people on the forum to give their perspective"...Here's mine, and I've been in the business of making a living in production for over 30 years: do not rely on it. Yes, continue making films, continue shooting, continue telling stories, continue accumulating all of those great memories - but do not rely on it for a living. Like PSA1 said: "Pay your bills first." And as Cassius said: "Shoot video on the weekend."

Everything changed recently when 2 things happened:
High quality cameras became cheap and the recession hit.
Now, every job, from weddings to commercials, can always be done cheaper. And there are people standing in line to shoot it cheaper still. Not "better", but "cheaper" and that's what counts these days. In my business, I watch commercials today and compare them to commercials from just 5 years ago and can hardly bear to watch. The creative is worse because advertisers are hiring people who haven't been trained properly in writing and design; and the execution is worse because they are hiring people who have no background in the technical side of filmmaking. And very few of the advertisers even care (including the "high-end players").

The good news is that I do think things may be slowly turning around. Companies are realizing that cheap production affects their "brand". But in the meantime, the advice above promoting "business classes" is an excellent one. And continue to shoot on the weekends! Good luck to all of us.
 
I will offer a slightly different perspective.

Here are some questions, ideas ---

Could you simply combine the office space/living place for yourself into one location? In other words, apartment, living room/office, BAM, just saved yourself a small fortune each month (I would think). If it's really a huge part of your image/ability to land clients to have a real "office," then never mind.

Your rates may be too low. How often do you work. . .a few days a week, a few days a month? If you're working constantly and still can't live on your own, you're probably not charging enough.

(I realize a few others have already touched on this, but I'll reiterate) Have you considered branching out in THIS industry rather than going into another line of work completely? Instead of doing what you do on your own productions, what about crewing for others on freelance gigs, or working full time at a production company as something (may have to start entry level even though you THINK you're qualified to do more. You mentioned being self-taught. . .if you posted samples of your work others might be able to critique and tell you realistically and objectively where your skill level really is), doing editing work for others on a freelance basis (weddings, whatever). Be a grip or production assistant on freelance gigs, do teleprompter work, or playback assistant, or camera assisting, etc. I'm simply trying to suggest any way to stay in the industry instead of selling your gear and working in retail or something.
 
There are as many answers to this question as there are people who want to be filmmakers. I understand perfectly the pressure to "be realistic", and have been told by many people close to me over the past few years that I should do just that.

Here's my thinking though: I'm only 24. I am single. No kids. So while i'm young and unattached, why wouldn't I just put all my chips on the table and go for it? If I had a family then I think the "be realistic" argument would have profound weight and I probably would end up putting my dreams on back burner. But in my current situation, I feel this is my time to really go for it and see what happens. Because of that I don't have a "real job". I am very lucky in that I live in an area with a lot of film/tv production going on, so I am currently able to barely scrape by with crew jobs, while working on short films and music videos. I could get a 9-5 and make more money than I am right now, and you could therefore say I would have more money to put into my projects, but for me a 9-5 would sap me of my energy, and I know I would get complacent.

In the end, I tend to agree with Quentin Tarantino's line of thinking: I can't allow myself a fall back plan, because I know I will fall back on it. By having an uncomfortable life, it keeps me driven.
 
Josh Bass said:
(I realize a few others have already touched on this, but I'll reiterate) Have you considered branching out in THIS industry rather than going into another line of work completely? Instead of doing what you do on your own productions, what about crewing for others on freelance gigs, or working full time at a production company as something (may have to start entry level even though you THINK you're qualified to do more. You mentioned being self-taught. . .if you posted samples of your work others might be able to critique and tell you realistically and objectively where your skill level really is), doing editing work for others on a freelance basis (weddings, whatever). Be a grip or production assistant on freelance gigs, do teleprompter work, or playback assistant, or camera assisting, etc. I'm simply trying to suggest any way to stay in the industry instead of selling your gear and working in retail or something.
Click to expand...

I second that. I would continue to make films, but if you are going to start a job search, try to get a job in the film business, anything. I think that delivering sandwiches and coffee on a film set, or doing basic utility jobs at a camera rental shop, for examples, beats working sh*t jobs in any other industry. From there you will need to develop a reputation for hard work, reliability and amiability and continue to look for opportunities to advance.
 
David G. Smith said:
I second that. I would continue to make films, but if you are going to start a job search, try to get a job in the film business, anything. I think that delivering sandwiches and coffee on a film set, or doing basic utility jobs at a camera rental shop, for examples, beats working sh*t jobs in any other industry. From there you will need to develop a reputation for hard work, reliability and amiability and continue to look for opportunities to advance.
Click to expand...


I agree with what they both said wholeheartedly. Finding a way to work in the industry is ideal, not just because you will in some capacity be doing what you love, but it's the best way to connect with others that might want to work on your projects. If you haven't figured it out already, this industry is 90% about connections. No better way to make them than from the inside.
 
I'm on the other side of the Pacific, but the scene is the same here. There are DSLR cams everywhere, just recently there was a crew shooting with 3 on the main street.

Trying to help the OP here's my 2 cents. Cut your weekly budget down, buy a cheaper car, take buses when you can. Try and save some to invest in property and pay it off, an apt which can be your office.

Being freelance you have to think about the later years, and eventually gulp, retirement. Property will (slowly) increase in value, later you can trade up and that'll be your retirement package. Look around for an area that's low cost but on the property value rise. And marriage and kids, imo important to life.

Think outside the box, make 5min stories for kids in hospital, actors demos, music videos, legal dep work, vids for real estate sites, study Steadicam work, maybe hook up with a wedding company as their overload shooter. Leave business cards at bridal shops for them.

Collect written references whenever you can, keep yourself in good shape and lastly, once a fortnight donate an afternoons charity work at a refuge centre,
then you'll see how fortunate you are. HTH. Oh god I'm turning into my father and my wifes got the TV remote.

Cheers.
 
Here's a relevant article from The Onion (satire).

http://www.theonion.com/articles/find-the-thing-youre-most-passionate-about-then-do,31742/

Find The Thing You're Most Passionate About, Then Do It On Nights And Weekends For The Rest Of Your Life

I have always been a big proponent of following your heart and doing exactly what you want to do. It sounds so simple, right? But there are people who spend years—decades, even—trying to find a true sense of purpose for themselves. My advice? Just find the thing you enjoy doing more than anything else, your one true passion, and do it for the rest of your life on nights and weekends when you’re exhausted and cranky and just want to go to bed.

It could be anything—music, writing, drawing, acting, teaching—it really doesn’t matter. All that matters is that once you know what you want to do, you dive in a full 10 percent and spend the other 90 torturing yourself because you know damn well that it’s far too late to make a drastic career change, and that you’re stuck on this mind-numbing path for the rest of your life.

Is there any other way to live?

I can’t stress this enough: Do what you love…in between work commitments, and family commitments, and commitments that tend to pop up and take immediate precedence over doing the thing you love. Because the bottom line is that life is short, and you owe it to yourself to spend the majority of it giving yourself wholly and completely to something you absolutely hate, and 20 minutes here and there doing what you feel you were put on this earth to do.

Before you get started, though, you need to find the one interest or activity that truly fulfills you in ways nothing else can. Then, really immerse yourself in it for a few fleeting moments after an exhausting 10-hour day at a desk job and an excruciating 65-minute commute home. During nights when all you really want to do is lie down and shut your eyes for a few precious hours before you have to drag yourself out of bed for work the next morning, or on weekends when your friends want to hang out and you’re dying to just lie on your couch and watch TV because you’re too fatigued to even think straight—these are the times when you need to do what you enjoy most in life.

Because when you get right down to it, everyone has dreams, and you deserve the chance—hell, you owe it to yourself—to pursue those dreams when you only have enough energy to change out of your work clothes and make yourself a half-assed dinner before passing out.

Say, for example, that your passion is painting. Well, what are you waiting for? Get out there and buy a canvas and some painting supplies! Go sign up for art classes! And when you get so overwhelmed with your job and your personal life that you barely have enough time to see your girlfriend or boyfriend or husband or wife, let alone do anything else, go ahead and skip classes for a few weeks. Then let those paint brushes sit in your room untouched for six months because a major work project came up and you had a bunch of weddings to go to and your kid got sick and money is tighter than you thought it would be and you have to work overtime. And then finally pick those brushes back up again only to realize you’re so rusty that you begin to question whether this was all a giant waste of time, whether you even want to paint anymore, and whether this was just some sort of immature little fantasy you had as a kid and that maybe it’s finally time to grow the **** up, let painting go, and join the real world because, let’s face it, not everyone gets to live out their dreams.

Not only does that sound fulfilling, but it also sounds pretty fun.

Really, the biggest obstacle to overcome here—aside from every single obligation you have to your friends, family, job, and financial future—is you. And I’ll tell you this much: You don’t want to wake up in 10 years and think to yourself, “What if I had just gone after my dreams during those brief 30-minute lunch breaks when I was younger?” Because even if it doesn’t work out, don’t you owe it to yourself to look in the mirror and confidently say, “You know what, I gave it my best half-hearted shot”
 
Good post, Zak.

OP: I think your dilemma is just waiting practical solutions. Live with friends. Meet clients in hotel lobbies. As someone else suggested, combine residence with professional office. Live in an inexpensive area.

You're still young. No need to get saddled with a job you hate. Now if the woman you want to marry wanted that...
 
Wow, you have £5000 in savings? I'm approaching/arrived at middle-age and I don't have anywhere near that this minute. Look, you are only 23. You can still afford to take risks, fail and bounce back.

If this soul-searching comes from life expectations or comparing yourself to your mates, don't. Swings and roundabouts.

I was seriously depressed a few years ago. I looked around at all the mates I went to university with and felt I was a long way behind the pack. A few years pass, over 30yo I go back to school, absorb the shame and do an apprenticeship (with 18yo kids) and come out with a decent job, my first opportunity for a traditional career. In the mean-time my friends lose lucrative mining jobs and/or get divorced and lose everything. They regret getting married, regret having had a single career path, regret having worked hard to buy a house (which their wife now owns while they are still paying the mortage and the rates on). I partied too long and too hard, fell through a variety of careers, fruitlessly chased a number of dreams. Yet now I'm on top and they are jealous not only of my current status but also of the life I've had. Give it a few years and maybe it will reverse again, who knows.

The moral of the story is that unless you are old money you are likely to lose everything and rebuild from scratch at least once in your life. Maybe several times. And this is likely to happen no matter how hard you work. No matter how focussed your goals. What is important is not the fall but that you shake it off and get back up again. It's never over while you're kicking.

A glorious failure is only a bad thing if you focus on the failure. If you focus on the glorious then none of the hard graft is a waste, even if you then have to become an accountant or something boring. Use your glory days in pursuit of glory, they will sustain you in the back half of your life - win or lose.

At your age you should pursue what drives you. If you are passionate about filmmaking you will find a way. As to whether you should quit your business or not, you'll have to decide that for yourself. There is no right answer. If you are an optimist you'll be happy, if you are a pessimist you will regret either decision. If you stick with your business you must commit to it, rededicate yourself and work through this difficult period doing the best work you can every time, make it profitable and grow the business until, in a few years time, you can do what you want to do rather than what you need to do. If you quit your business you need to either quit totally, 'sell out' and get a career (you can come back to it later in life, or not) or commit to achieving your filmmaking goal and be prepared to suffer to get there.

There's no easy path. Giving up because you can't find a flexible job is you putting barriers in your way. It is far easier to make your filmmaking flexible around your part-time job because you can control those times. What makes you think you can't work around a fixed shift of a 3 or 4 day job? Filmmaking is beholden to the weather, the light, very rarely if ever the day of the week. Odds are the talent you can afford will only be available weekends anyway. Don't find reasons why you can't do it. Find ways that you can do it.

So the key messages here is that you can afford to fail. That you have to make it happen, be positive and look for solutions not problems. And that the effort is worth as much as (financial) success. Qualitatively, life stories and experience count for a lot in later life. I know so many people who didn't take the path less travelled and they have more regrets than I ever did. Better to regret the things you did than the things you didn't do.
 
Quitting is easy. Succeeding is hard.

It's difficult to give great advice without knowing where you are based or seeing your work, so here are some generalised thoughts:

Look at what you have. Low overhead, money in the bank, equipment, family support. You have much more than most people at your age. In my early twenties I was once so skint I didn't eat for a week. I stuck at it.

Your mistake, as I see it, is trying to do everything yourself. You need experience to do that successfully. My advice is focus on what you are best at and find companies who can hire you to do that role, be it as an editor, director, camera assistant or whatever. Even if you want to perform all the key roles, I'd still advise collaborating to some extent.

I'd invest some of that £5k in professional training. You need professional training to get hired on commercials or features in the UK - you cant get by reading Philip Bloom's website or attending a few meet-ups. Check out the courses run by skill-set and the NFTS.

You need to focus on your career rather than your bank balance or living arrangements. There are more ways to earn a living in this business today than ever before, but you need to be totally committed.

It is hard to succeed. If it was easy everyone would do it. Stick at it. If you fail, you can always become a teacher...
 
Another thing I can tell you is that the networking/self-promotion thing is VERY IMPORTANT to how far you get/how much you work. In your case, being a director/DP/editor/etc., you would take every opportunity, seriously, even when out to dinner, looking for new business opportunities. See some guy in hockey outfit? Find out if that team needs games taped or videos made of the players for recruiters, etc. etc. People usually advise attending chamber of commerce meeting and becoming members of different clubs where you can meet business owners/potential clients. In other words, figure out who you'd want to be your clients, and find out where they congregate, and sell yourself to them. Your services, I mean. Not your body. Unless you're into that. Who am I to judge?
 
You're 23!!!! You have no attachments and live with your parents!!! You will never have a better chance to do WHATEVER you want EVER!!! You cerainly won't when you're 40, married with kids, a mortgage, debt coming out your ears, your body starts failing and whatever shred of hope you had starts rotting like a corpse in the basement of your soul. This is the time of your life you do that crap work, the building of your reel and resume. Unless you are gifted or rich, you will have to fight to get every scrap of talent and financial success you have. To quote a movie, nobody's gonna give it to you. You have to take it. Cue Rolling Stones music.
 
I have friends waiting for the break when they make that one thing that takes them to the next level. I don't believe in that. Hard work and a good track record of what you've delivered is something that works in the long run.
 
I'm 28 and I apparently read the manual backwards as I am only recently (as of 3 years ago) beginning to pursue my dream now that I already have a wife, 3 kids, house, and a full-time job in an unrelated field (IT & Systems). Because of this, I get my gear and accessories as I can afford them (that is to say, infrequently) and I only shoot stuff on nights/weekends. I can't take advantage almost all crew calls in the area as they require daytime work during the week. I've only had 2 cash-paying gigs in the last year and I fund my web hosting and services out of my regular paycheck.

The whole "do some PA gigs and work your way up on the set" career trajectory is not an option for me. If I were single or even kid-less, I'd quit my job and pursue my dreams full-time, but that just isn't possible. Thankfully I live in an incredible digital age where I can make connections, put my work out there, and steadily put myself in a position where I can make a career out of this. It's not ideal, but at least it's possible without endangering the welfare of my family.

I say all that to echo what others are saying to you... you're 23 and have no other major obligations. I'd give anything to have been in your position 5 years ago. You can afford to risk it all, fail, and bounce back. If not, you can at least afford to put more of your time and effort into this than most people. I say cut back your expenses as much as possible, stick to an efficient budget, get a part-time job to supplement the income, and take as many legitimate jobs that you can to build your reel/experience so you're continuing to put yourself in a better position to be able to accomplish your goal of being a successful filmmaker.

Good luck!
 
Batutta said:
You're 23!!!! You have no attachments and live with your parents!!! You will never have a better chance to do WHATEVER you want EVER!!! You cerainly won't when you're 40, married with kids, a mortgage, debt coming out your ears, your body starts failing and whatever shred of hope you had starts rotting like a corpse in the basement of your soul.
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Pretty much this^. I'm in late twenties and for the sake of career I love I did some crazy turnarounds, moving to other city/country/continent, quit well payed safe jobs and so on, with far less than you have atm. Again, because no one depends on me, I can afford that risk.

Besides, 'risk' these days is only an echo of its real meaning. There is no real risk involved if you have house, money, you're young, independent and you live in a country with mature legal/business system. What risk? What is at stake actually? Ask yourself, and if you can't answer in a simple sentence, then probably nothing is at stake, you're just scared because of possible big change coming.

I believe we always feel more sorry for things we didn't tried, rather then those we did. So, imagine yourself one year ahead with that in mind. Maybe it helps.
 
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