Should a director be interested more in screenwriting or cinematography?

This is why, as previously mentioned, I avoid specific references at all costs - because *someone* will hate that example. Oy vey...

Specific examples *are not the point*, students...

Gary Huff said:
But there's nothing special at all about the story in Star Wars...it's very boilerplate and is essentially Seven Samurai. All Lucas did was set it in space amongst some amazing special effects. That makes Star Wars a very poor example for this. It was a blockbuster because it had amazing effects, not because the story was anything special.
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Batutta said:
The writer was supposedly Robert Riskin, who wrote alot of his films, but this is one of those stories that's floated around a long time and I'm not sure it's ever been fact checked.
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Riskin is written about extensively in Capra's autobio, in unequivocally praising terms, and credited fully and duly (IMO) for his great contributions to Capra's films. Not a whiff of condescension toward him in there, ever...
 
Ted Spencer said:
This is why, as previously mentioned, I avoid specific references at all costs - because *someone* will hate that example. Oy vey...

Specific examples *are not the point*, students...
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Yeah, but I don't even think his hate made any sense. I don't see how you get Seven Samurai out of Star Wars. Two fundamentally different stories. One is about a band of farmers hiring a bunch of warriors to defend their village from bandits. The other is a kid going on a mission with an old wizard to save a princess. I see zero connection. Wizard of Oz has more in common with Star Wars than Seven Samurai...Anyway, as you said though, that isn't really the point.
 
Btw, Capra is one of the many greats who cites story as the sine-qua-non of successful filmmaking. So does Robert Zemeckis, as extensively referenced by his friend Gil Bettman in his excellent book "First Time Director", which I'm reading now.

And there are so many others...
 
Batutta said:
Yeah, but I don't even think his hate made any sense. I don't see how you get Seven Samurai out of Star Wars. Two fundamentally different stories.
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That's because it was a mistake. I meant Hidden Fortress, not Seven Samurai. Chalk it up to an early morning. But outside of the slipup, I still stand by my comments.
 
Gary Huff said:
That's because it was a mistake. I meant Hidden Fortress, not Seven Samurai. Chalk it up to an early morning. But outside of the slipup, I still stand by my comments.
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Well we'll agree to disagree. I don't think anything achieves the status of Star Wars without the story really resonating with audiences.
 
Batutta said:
I don't think anything achieves the status of Star Wars without the story really resonating with audiences.
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What do you mean by "status"? Money made? Warm fuzzy feelings that people feel? The former is more something you can show than the latter, and in that case, I give you the Transformers trilogy.
 
Gary Huff said:
What do you mean by "status"? Money made? Warm fuzzy feelings that people feel? The former is more something you can show than the latter, and in that case, I give you the Transformers trilogy.
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Star Wars was a phenomenon...It changed people's lives. You can laugh that off but it's true. And in terms of tickets sold, adjusted for inflation, it's number 2 only behind Gone With The Wind. Transformers isn't even in the top 50....But we can't really argue the value of the story, because at a certain point, it's all subjective. I think Star Wars has a very good story. You don't obviously, and on that we'll never agree. And I won't agree it's success was all due to special effects. It was the whole package.
 
Gary Huff said:
You can pick any piece of entertainment and find someone who will say it changed their life.
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Come on. People are still obsessing about Star Wars over 30 years after its release. That doesn't happen because folks saw something sparkly and shiny. The story. The characters. The values it imparted. The world Lucas created. It resonated on a deep level with millions of people. You can't dismiss that.
 
I don't think this line of discussion is very fruitful. Your points aren't strong, and can be echoed about a variety of sci-fi and other genre projects, from Dr. Who to Avatar. You should focus on something more tangible than warm fuzzies.
 
Gary Huff said:
I don't think this line of discussion is very fruitful. Your points aren't strong, and can be echoed about a variety of sci-fi and other genre projects, from Dr. Who to Stargate: Atlantis. You should focus on something more tangible than warm fuzzies.
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This discussion will never be fruitful because you believe Star Wars succeeded solely on its special effects. Something you can't prove. And I can't prove everyone in the universe loved the story. I like the story quite a bit. Don't know what else to say.
 
Batutta said:
This discussion will never be fruitful because you believe Star Wars succeeded solely on its special effects.
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I don't believe that. I believe it succeeded because it had a serviceable story, coupled with some charismatic individuals (Harrison Ford in particular), some imaginative creatures (Chewbacca and the Droids), and amazing special effects.

What about Battle Beyond the Stars? That's the movie that's based on Seven Samurai actually (along with The Magnificent Seven). Is it every bit as good as Star Wars in regards to its content? Why or why not?
 
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Gary Huff said:
I don't believe that. I believe it succeeded because it had a serviceable story, coupled with some charismatic individuals (Harrison Ford in particular), some imaginative creatures (Chewbacca and the Droids), and amazing special effects.

What about Battle Beyond the Stars? That's the movie that's based on Seven Samurai actually (along with The Magnificent Seven). Is it every bit as good as Star Wars in regards to its content? Why or why not?
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I've seen it. I don't think it's every bit as good in terms of content, but we can't sit here and argue our opinions as facts. That will get us nowhere. It's not even what the discussion is about.
 
What about Avatar? It's essentially Dances With Wolves (Oscar winner for Best Picture) in space. Does that make it an amazing film because of its story? If not, why not?

Batutta said:
I've seen it. I don't think it's every bit as good in terms of content, but we can't sit here and argue our opinions as facts. That will get us nowhere.
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What about its content does not make it as good? If you want to argue content as some kind of metric indicator of "good", then you should be able to give concrete examples, should you not?
 
Gary Huff said:
What about Avatar? It's essentially Dances With Wolves (Oscar winner for Best Picture) in space. Does that make it an amazing film because of its story? If not, why not?



What about its content does not make it as good? If you want to argue content as some kind of metric indicator of "good", then you should be able to give concrete examples, should you not?
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This argument will go nowhere. Past a certain level of competence, what someone believes is serviceable, good or great is largely subjective. There is no metric because it's different for everyone...You said the story for Star Wars was nothing special and it was the amazing special effects that made it popular. I disagreed, offering my own opinion and cirumstantial evidence that other people think it's special as well. I can even add that the Academy thought it was better than serviceable as they nominated the screenplay for an Academy Award. That won't change your opinion one bit, so what's the point?
 
The audience at large cares about two things: name actors and spectacle. You can protest this as much as you want, but, by and large, that's what sells tickets/Blu-rays/ect.

Now, as to what makes a good movie (outside of the sales figures), no one can say.
 
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not much passion here, just second guessing on a few titles out of 1000's of films made. that doesn't seem to make sense.

if you want to make it in this business son. write. or find people to write for you. quick.
 
Gary Huff said:
The audience at large cares about two things: name actors and spectacle. You can protest this as much as you want, but, by and large, that's what sells tickets/Blu-rays/ect.

Now, as to what makes a good movie (outside of the sales figures), no one can say.
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Who said I was protesting that? Those things will get audiences into the theater, no doubt. What keeps them coming back and spreading the word and building a following and buying blu-rays and being remembered decades later is a good movie, which I think you can say is a good story well executed...The story matters. So does the execution. Which is what this thread is about...I think the story takes primary importance only because it is primary in the process. Without it, nothing follows. And if the filmmaker does his job well, he allows it to shine.
 
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