shots tracking ahead of cyclist on bicycle. . .how to?

J

Josh Bass

Veteran
I have a music video project I plan to shoot sometime soon, one component of it will involve shots of the vocalist riding a bicycle. I'd like to have a shot of him, medium and CU, riding, cam facing back at him (he's looking into cam). Maybe other shots too, but this is the most important one for this aspect of the video. Of course we could do this with green screen, but that is a last resort for me. I just think it would be cooler to actually have him out riding and shoot practically. We would do this in a relatively quiet neighborhood not, so much on busy urban/city streets.

This is of course a zero budget type shoot, so what's a good and of course safe way to do this? Someone else had a short on here with some guys running, similar to what I'm talking about, director said they drove ahead of them in an SUV or similar, slowly, shot from the back. This is a way to go but would require more people (I would like to be in one of the shots, so we'd need another operator who isn't me, and a driver). We talked about gopros/osmos rigged to the bike or helmet. . .how well does this stuff work (if dummies who've never done it before rig it up?)? My experience from looking at youtube videos is, not great, at least for the Osmo.

Beg a friend with a Ronin or similar to just walk ahead of bike? Cyclist doesn't have to go very fast, and it doesn't need to be one take for whole song, can break it up into reasonable chunks.

And of course, as I said, greenscreen. Besides being kind of meh, and knowing it'll likely look fake, how would you get the "plates" and have them match the perspective/height etc. so it sells that the guy is riding wherever the background footage shows?

Would greenscreen be any better/different than old school back projection? I.e., shoot the plates but project them and shoot him "riding" in front of that? I guess maybe you could match the plate lighting a little better if you're watching it happen as you light your subject.

Let me know your thoughts. thanks.
 
If u were in the UK hire me and my DIY 'black arm' :)
http://framedogs.com/gimbal-arm/
or rickshaw
http://framedogs.com/camera-rickshaw/

The way to do it is black arm, or sit in the back of a vehicle with a gimbal
http://www.flowcine.com/black-and-accessories/98-the-black-arm.html

Sitting in the back of a motor vehicle may not be legal -the basic reason black arms exist.

You need a good crew/driver you TRUST in any situation - it is really easy for a cycle to hit the lead vehicle if the lead vehicle brakes hard

Seriously dont do it without a trusted driver.
 
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Sit in a vehicle (say the back of a pickup truck) with a gimbal. Rent a Segway or get a camera op
who is good on a skateboard. Mount a GoPro with a suction mount on the back of a car. Use the
wireless app on your phone to get framing (directing the driver if needed) and then start the recording
Lots and lots of options.
 
Neither of us (main band guys) has a gimbal so that would be begging a friend. Go pro suction mount sounds promising.
 
The CU and even the medium shot will be difficult to achieve without some sort of stabilizing system. I don't see a GoPro mounted to a leading vehicle being very promising either. There is bound to be camera shake and jitter. And the fov is going to be so wide as to not be of much use.

In order to visualize why long-lens shots from a moving vehicle are so difficult without any stabilization, imagine a spot-light mounted to a vehicle and how that beam of light will bounce up and down / shake with every movement of the vehicle. Every bump in the road becomes magnified. Even seams in the road transmit to the path of the beam and are magnified.


A simple, albeit dangerous, method might be as simple as having a camera operator on their knees in the back of a pickup truck ( with the tail-gate closed so as to prevent the camera operator from falling out. And also a means of preventing the operator from being pitched towards the cab of the truck should the vehicle stop abruptly. ) Then have the bicycle rider trail closely behind the pickup truck, the driver of the pickup being mindful not to make any abrupt stops. The camera op using their thigh muscles as best they can to minimize any camera shake. But it will still be difficult to achieve a steady frame that maintains horizon, does not pitch, and keeps the subject centered. Better would be someone operating a handheld gimbal or full blown gimbal. But you'll still need to use a relatively wide focal length.



For inspiration, here is a video much in the vein of what you are wanting:

 
'Go Pro on a vehicle'

I think if it is worth doing its worth doing properly. Dont bother with that one.

--

If I were doinig anything with a gopro I would do a snorricam.. (rig by SMM) cycling in about third verse)

 
Thanks guys. I am definitely thinking of more the snorricam shots over the super wides in the other video. The super wides would be cool if we were doing in downtown Houston or a busyish traffic area, but then we're back to stupid dangerous stuff.

I do notice that the snorricam, if the bike shots are where I think they are, you can't even tell he's on a bike (can't see hands on handlebars or anything).

Hell, maybe it is just a greenscreen/back projection thing. No one needs to die (or spend big money) for this.

Maybe simply walking ahead of the bike with gimbal/stabilizer? Again, speedier biking would be nice but life is full of compromises etc. etc. Or do something crazy where we do the walking shot/slow riding and he lip syncs song at half speed, we double speed it in post so he appears to be pedaling faster while singing normally.
 
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The object, auto-tracking feature of P4pro drone - or perhaps even better - the 48mm optical zoom of the new Mavic Pro 2 zoom - might give you good results as well - if you are shooting in wide open area and can fly the drone a bit left or right of the rider. (object tracking works pretty well in my limited experience with it - and will keep the drone the same distance from whatever object it is tracking). Shoot in 4k and edit in HD to give even tighter shot (if really necessary).
 
Or you can keep the drone in your hands while filming from the back of a car. I made some nice drone shots in a room full of children. I taped the drone to a long broom stick.
The gimbal did his job well and no one was harmed.
 
I've actually done this sort of thing a lot, both as rider and as part of the crew filming.

Maybe you could get some process-bike ideas from this old Supergrass video (bike shots start around 1:05 and continue). Maybe a little silly for what you want, but note that lots of the shots are (most likely) of bikes on stationary trainers that have been placed in the back of a truck. Also, it's a cool song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUE4oDunYkc

My take is that the walking/running in front of the rider shots wouldn't be super successful. I've done stuff like that with a Movi, but to let the rider get to a speed where he or she looks stable on the bike (ie- not wobbling a bit trying to stay upright), the camop has to run (or at least jog really quickly), and that makes long shots tricky and exhausting.

The Snorricam (or a similar rig) could work for some shots; if it'll do it for you, go for it!

But what I'd probably do is borrow or rent a tandem bicycle, an electric bike, a cargo bike, or maybe a Vespa-style scooter. Then you have one person ride the bike and another on the back (both wearing helmets for sure) operating the camera. If you have an experienced rider piloting (doesn't need to be a racer; just someone who commutes or rides for fun) and who has at least a hazy grip of filmmaking (or learns quickly), then you'll have someone who can match the speed of the talent, accelerate & slow down slowly, and also not be a total hazard if he/she needs to brake hard (unlike say someone driving a truck...which is a bigger obstacle).

The camera operator would be facing backwards, but at slow bike speeds, on quiet streets, and with a helmet, that doesn't need to be hazardous.

If you want higher-speed stuff, get a solid pro who's shot bike races from the back of a motorcycle. But a cargo bike would probably be my first choice for this gig.

For example, here's a good brand (and a picture of their ebike model):
http://yubabikes.com/cargobikestore/spicy-curry-bosch

YUBA.jpg


Good luck and let us know what you end up doing!
 
markfpv said:
The object, auto-tracking feature of P4pro drone - or perhaps even better - the 48mm optical zoom of the new Mavic Pro 2 zoom - might give you good results as well - if you are shooting in wide open area and can fly the drone a bit left or right of the rider. (object tracking works pretty well in my limited experience with it - and will keep the drone the same distance from whatever object it is tracking). Shoot in 4k and edit in HD to give even tighter shot (if really necessary).
Click to expand...

I've shot "vehicle-to-vehicle" handheld many times before, with good results. I just stumbled across an Olympic piece I did for NBC a few years ago on some cyclists and all of the riding footage was me handheld hanging out of a mini-van. I was surprised going back and watching it. One of the keys is to be close so that you can still have "tight" shots without shooting at extremely long focal lengths. Of course, there may have been some post stabilization in some of the tighter shots.

BUT I was also about to suggest the drone thing, too. Some of the examples I've seen from the Mavic 2 with its new object tracking are pretty damn amazing. Mine just came in and I may give it a shot later and see for myself. Although I don't have a bike, anymore...
 
Run&Gun said:
I've shot "vehicle-to-vehicle" handheld many times before, with good results. I just stumbled across an Olympic piece I did for NBC a few years ago on some cyclists and all of the riding footage was me handheld hanging out of a mini-van. I was surprised going back and watching it. One of the keys is to be close so that you can still have "tight" shots without shooting at extremely long focal lengths. Of course, there may have been some post stabilization in some of the tighter shots.

BUT I was also about to suggest the drone thing, too. Some of the examples I've seen from the Mavic 2 with its new object tracking are pretty damn amazing. Mine just came in and I may give it a shot later and see for myself. Although I don't have a bike, anymore...
Click to expand...

In my younger days, I shot both 16mm film from the back of a small hatchback as well as lots of ENG news and or local commercials from a moving van, back of pick up trucks and even once from the platform top of a "live news truck". (I certainly wouldn't recommend this now - any abrupt stop would have tossed me right off).
When I first got my P4Pro drone about a year or so ago, I tested the object tracking and was quite impressed with how reliable it was. I don't have a need for it in most of the paid drone work I've been doing, but it should be an option - just would warn not to try to get too close to the rider (and maybe be about 3 or 4 foot above them - helping to see the bike). But you can set that distance when rider is stopped & drone is hovering. And then the drone will simply start backing up, keeping the same distance between itself and the rider once the rider begins to pedal.

Someone else may have already mentioned this - but even using a small mirrorless cam with a cheap handheld gimbal and lightweight sticks (or possibly monopod) in either the back of a pick-up truck or out of an open hatchback - keeping focal distance to a minimum - should get decent results. Doing any of these in an area where there will be no other traffic - and no possible reasons for abrupt stops - is hopefully a given.
 
Have the performer tail a second bike that's pulling a trailer carrying the camera operator. A drone might be the easiest way to get the shot, but it's not as fun as my alternate idea.
 
Many of these are cool ideas but not necessarily feasible given our resources. I do know people with gimbals and drones however.
 
I have done this with a camera op in the back of an ATV with a steadicam. I have also done this handheld with a phantom 4 pro in the back of a golf cart.

If the situation was right, you could probably just fly a drone ahead of the bike.
 
So if I understand, doing it from any vehicle would require the vehicle to be going at pretty good clip so as to allow the cyclist to get up to a reasonable speed, yes? Like, what, 15-25 mph?
 
morgan_moore said:
'Go Pro on a vehicle'

I think if it is worth doing its worth doing properly. Dont bother with that one.

--

If I were doinig anything with a gopro I would do a snorricam.. (rig by SMM) cycling in about third verse)

Click to expand...

Of course it all depends on what type of shot you
are looking for. That being said, I did a shoot with
American Eagle where we did exactly this with GoPros
on a vehicle. This was on a shoot with a large budget
and I’m pretty sure they knew how to ‘do things properly.’
A-cam was Red Epic. There were 3 motion camera crews
and 5 or 6 still photographer crews. I was an AC and part
of my job was setting up GoPro shots.....they did a TON
of GoPro stuff....including GoPro on a vehicle tracking shots.
If you have a smooth road, a nice new car with air suspension,
it looks decent. Definitely shoot in the higher bitrate/ProTune.
It’s certainly not a Russian arm with a Red but it’s pretty
cheap to try it and see if it would work for your purposes.
Assuming you have a GoPro or can borrow one.

Drone shot is another good option. It really all depends
on what type of shot you are looking for. Drone shots, like
GoPro shots are wider than you may want. Because they
are so wide though, you can also find a mount to go
off the bike (sort of like a short selfie stick( off the handlebars
or such) looking back at the rider
 
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Yes this will be a bottom of the barrel bare bones low budget shoot. You know those guys who just cast their friends and use whatever's available? That's what we'll be doing.
 
Josh Bass said:
So if I understand, doing it from any vehicle would require the vehicle to be going at pretty good clip so as to allow the cyclist to get up to a reasonable speed, yes? Like, what, 15-25 mph?
Click to expand...

I've done it at under 10mph from motorcycles and various four-wheel vehicles (usually SUV-ish)...

25mph is rather fast on flat ground; like bike-racing fast. 8-13mph is more leisurely...like commuting or riding through town singing.

Drones could be fun for some shots, but will the camera on a drone you can get be too limiting in terms of image-qual?

But again, the smaller the vehicle, the better, imo. Bike first, eBike second, vespa-style scooter, then up to golf carts, ATVs (both good ideas). Don't see a need for a car; in fact, I'd suggest not using a camera car.

But then, maybe have a car trailing way behind (effectively out of the shot) with a walkie so they can give you a heads up if some cranky car comes zooming up.
 
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